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Question on defense.
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Post by
241798
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ArgentSun
Whenever you can enchant for Defense, go for it. Whenever you have a yellow socket, gem Defense. Other than that, Stamina or Dodge. And don't gem Strength unless you are building yourself a second, block/threat set.
Post by
Dunsinane
Should i keep stacking defense till no end?
Probably not.
Defense = block and avoidance right?
Yes.
Or should I go to about 545 (in case of upgrades with less defense) and gem/enchant for stam or dodge?
It depends.
Or maybe I should gem for STR for more block?
Gemming for STR is done primarilly for threat, not for block. So this is an unlikely choice.
There are alot of forums on this, I know, BUT most are for pre 3.2.
All 3.2 did was change the amount of parry and dodge ratings needed to gain 1% avoidance. It didn't affect stamina stacking at all, though the improvement to Ardent Defender made it a more effective strategy than it already was. In 99% of cases, you can take the advice in good 3.1 tanking guides verbatim and do just fine.
Basically my plan is this. Work to get defense cap. Then gem/chant for 30k hp. Then gem/chant for avoidance. Is this pretty much how to do things?
Depends on what content you're trying to do. Personally, I'd say that's a bad strategy. You don't have the stamina for Uld25 or ToC10/25, and block is a ton more valuable in Naxx. If your goal is Uld10, that's probably an okay approach.
Short version - there are no easy answers.
Any help or advice will be appreciated!
BTW my pally is here-- I know i have wrong BP and shoulders, but I'm trying to level quickly.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Thrall&cn=Ferf&gn=Descent
Advice - you're level 74. Don't concern yourself about 30k health until you've run a few dozen heroics and cleared Naxx once or twice. Walk before you try to run.
Post by
Quest
Whenever you can enchant for Defense, go for it. Whenever you have a yellow socket, gem Defense. Other than that, Stamina or Dodge. And don't gem Strength unless you are building yourself a second, block/threat set.
All the hip and happening people are socketing yellow with agility! (when at or above def min)
Its just the right thing to do*
* There are several 'jump points' in terms of defence, if avoidance/mitigation is your thing. But if youre just starting out, stay as close to 540 as possible and stack dodge/stam to get your slot bonuses. If youre 540 naturally (gear), slap agility/hit in yellow.
Post by
ArgentSun
I find it too much hassle to keep an eye on those numbers. At the end it won't result in more than 0.20-0.30% avoidance, best case scenario, and chances are, it will cost you a lot of money to keep re-gemming so you can stay around those crucial numbers.
Post by
Quest
Hassle? I find it fun to min/max.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
I find it too much hassle to keep an eye on those numbers. At the end it won't result in more than 0.20-0.30% avoidance, best case scenario, and chances are, it will cost you a lot of money to keep re-gemming so you can stay around those crucial numbers.
I agree in theory, but just because
you
find it a hassle doesn't make it bad. It's like telling someone to shoot for a B in the class because it's too much of a hassle to have to study for an A. Yes, they're both passing grades, but someone who is serious about doing well will strive for the A.
Post by
241798
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Bloodkittie
* There are several 'jump points' in terms of defence, if avoidance/mitigation is your thing. But if youre just starting out, stay as close to 540 as possible and stack dodge/stam to get your slot bonuses. If youre 540 naturally (gear), slap agility/hit in yellow.
Quest can u paste the Defence jump point pls?
Post by
Quest
* There are several 'jump points' in terms of defence, if avoidance/mitigation is your thing. But if youre just starting out, stay as close to 540 as possible and stack dodge/stam to get your slot bonuses. If youre 540 naturally (gear), slap agility/hit in yellow.
Quest can u paste the Defence jump point pls?
689,728,787,846,910 and 969
Post by
Dunsinane
Thank you guys for the replies. I know I'm only level 74, but I'm going to craft a set of daunting/tempered saronite for when I can wear them. I'll just go from there and gem by what color the socket is.
Depends on what content you're trying to do. Personally, I'd say that's a bad strategy. You don't have the stamina for Uld25 or ToC10/25, and block is a ton more valuable in Naxx. If your goal is Uld10, that's probably an okay approach.
So the same tanking set is not optimal for those different raids?
Correct. Different gear is useful in different situations.
Naxx bosses are notorious for being soft hitters. High block value combined with being at the block cap makes them oversized trash mobs that drop epics and emblems. A decent block set means you will often be at the bottom of the damage taken list while MTing Loatheb.
Uld25 is the first big spike for damage taken (barring something like OS3D). Most bosses will hit for a minimum of 20k per swing on a well-geared tank, and some such as Vezax will hit much harder. Sitting at 30k health there means you may well get two shot, even after raid buffs. That makes a healer's life much more difficult.
Post by
svirve
* There are several 'jump points' in terms of defence, if avoidance/mitigation is your thing. But if youre just starting out, stay as close to 540 as possible and stack dodge/stam to get your slot bonuses. If youre 540 naturally (gear), slap agility/hit in yellow.
Quest can u paste the Defence jump point pls?
689,728,787,846,910 and
969
Intentional or just coincidence?
Post by
Bloodkittie
* There are several 'jump points' in terms of defence, if avoidance/mitigation is your thing. But if youre just starting out, stay as close to 540 as possible and stack dodge/stam to get your slot bonuses. If youre 540 naturally (gear), slap agility/hit in yellow.
Quest can u paste the Defence jump point pls?
689,728,787,846,910 and 969
advice needed pls:
i have atm 808 defence, should i strive by gear and geming (geming i mean green gem of +10def +15stam on yellow) to reach the 846 point or should i lower my defence to the 787 point and just gem stam and pure avoidance gems?
(i am asking cause soon i am gonna get the new helm from the Triumph vendor and that helm will give me 21 def rate more then what i have atm).
Post by
Chocodave
I feel fairly noobish to ask this considering how long I've been pala-tanking for... But what is "Defence jump point" ? I know of the defence milestone, the block cap, diminishing returns etc, but this is new to me :(
A quick forum search for "jump point" revealed nothing at all. So... Can someone explain exactly what this is, why its important, and how this affects me? Cheers in advance
Choco
Post by
388951
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
valundar
* There are several 'jump points' in terms of defence, if avoidance/mitigation is your thing. But if youre just starting out, stay as close to 540 as possible and stack dodge/stam to get your slot bonuses. If youre 540 naturally (gear), slap agility/hit in yellow.
Quest can u paste the Defence jump point pls?
689,728,787,846,910 and 969
Do you have a link to a forum discussing this?
I am trying to familiarize myself with the tanking #'s should i decide to jump into it.
I have been unable to locate any threads with the maths/supporting data.
Im not saying it isnt true.. jsut that i would like to pour over the data to understand it.
Thank you in advance
Post by
MegaVolt
Whenever you can enchant for Defense, go for it. Whenever you have a yellow socket, gem Defense. Other than that, Stamina or Dodge. And don't gem Strength unless you are building yourself a second, block/threat set.
Back to the roots: This is really all you need to know.
Avoidance comes naturally with gear. You shouldn't really sacrifice stamina to get it. Especially not when your gear gets pretty decent and your avoidance is hitting diminishing returns. And as long as your gear is not decent you will have a crappy health pool so stamina is even more important. So just get defense up to 540 and then try to gem and enchant stamina whenever possible. If it is not possible and the socket bonus is good then gem mixed defense/stamina. If you got a good red socket bonus then you can gem either a mixed dodge/stamina or expertise/stamina. Don't underestimate expertise since it's one of the main reasons for insta-gib in late game content due to parry haste. It's an extremely valuable tank stat and you should try to get it up to 15%.
Post by
SlowSide
689,728,787,846,910 and 969
Do you have a link to a forum discussing this?
I am trying to familiarize myself with the tanking #'s should i decide to jump into it.
I have been unable to locate any threads with the maths/supporting data.
Im not saying it isnt true.. jsut that i would like to pour over the data to understand it.
Thank you in advance
There are 2 places I've seen this:
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f14/52401-parry-dodge-change-question-2.html
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24554
Though MainTankadin seems to be down right now. Here is the Article that references the two:
http://honorscode.blogspot.com/2009/07/patch-32-avoidance-nerf.html
Post by
Quest
* There are several 'jump points' in terms of defence, if avoidance/mitigation is your thing. But if youre just starting out, stay as close to 540 as possible and stack dodge/stam to get your slot bonuses. If youre 540 naturally (gear), slap agility/hit in yellow.
Quest can u paste the Defence jump point pls?
689,728,787,846,910 and 969
Do you have a link to a forum discussing this?
I am trying to familiarize myself with the tanking #'s should i decide to jump into it.
I have been unable to locate any threads with the maths/supporting data.
Im not saying it isnt true.. jsut that i would like to pour over the data to understand it.
Thank you in advance
Its hard to find becuse its a new thoeycraft evolved from RatingConversion->Diminishing return curves->avoidance interceptions (where one rating crosses the other in terms of avoidance usefulness). Due to the floored nature of defense, amung other reasons, we now have def jumpoints.
* There are several 'jump points' in terms of defence, if avoidance/mitigation is your thing. But if youre just starting out, stay as close to 540 as possible and stack dodge/stam to get your slot bonuses. If youre 540 naturally (gear), slap agility/hit in yellow.
Quest can u paste the Defence jump point pls?
689,728,787,846,910 and
969
Intentional or just coincidence?
I found that funny the first time too. Maybe there is a god!
advice needed pls:
i have atm 808 defence, should i strive by gear and geming (geming i mean green gem of +10def +15stam on yellow) to reach the 846 point or should i lower my defence to the 787 point and just gem stam and pure avoidance gems?
(i am asking cause soon i am gonna get the new helm from the Triumph vendor and that helm will give me 21 def rate more then what i have atm).
It depends on what gear you have access too. Basic rule of thumb for def jumpoints is if you can easily get a jumpoint, go for it. If its not easy to get to, stay around the next lowest one. The optimization is very small so that you should not be spending 100s of gold to attain it. It is, however, a mathematical advantage no matter how small.
Post by
Bloodkittie
advice needed pls:
i have atm 808 defence, should i strive by gear and geming (geming i mean green gem of +10def +15stam on yellow) to reach the 846 point or should i lower my defence to the 787 point and just gem stam and pure avoidance gems?
(i am asking cause soon i am gonna get the new helm from the Triumph vendor and that helm will give me 21 def rate more then what i have atm).
It depends on what gear you have access too. Basic rule of thumb for def jumpoints is if you can easily get a jumpoint, go for it. If its not easy to get to, stay around the next lowest one. The optimization is very small so that you should not be spending 100s of gold to attain it. It is, however, a mathematical advantage no matter how small.
thank you Quest, i decieded to strive to reach the 846 def point cause of the new items that i got that broth me even closer to the 846 jump point (816 def rate and i still didn't got the helm).
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