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Which trinket for bear?
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Post by
Riox
Hi all
I just respecced into bear from tree, and I have a decent amount of gear. I am usually in my moonkin gear (MS), so I create a
profile
for those who want to look at my armory (I've set it up to the correct detail).
My stats in bear (with MotW):
Hp: 31987
Armor: 27617 (64.45% reduction)
Expertise: 38
Hit: 141
Dodge: 35.48%
AP: 4531
Crit: 36.68%
I know some will say I have the wrong enchant etc. , thats not the point.
I am wondering if I should use
The Black Heart
and pair it up with
Essence of Gossamer
or
Monarch Crab
with two
Solid Dragon's Eye
?
From my point of view, the crab will net me 170 stam and 300 dodge for 10s, and EoG has a nice on hit proc to it.
And my biggest question is EoG not worth it since I have
Savage Defense
? Would EoG proc really help the healers most of the time?
Post by
449558
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Aadramelekh
At your current status you are good for tanking raids (Naxx 25, VoA 10, Ulduar 10 and even ToC 10 & VoA 25 with full raid buffs). In this raid content I must say that the Essence of Gossamer is less effective as a tanking trinket than the Black Heart and the Monarch Crab.
My advice: Black Heart + Monarch Crab.
BUT.
Don't put those Solid Dragon's Eyes in the Monarch Crab. Put them in your gear. Why? Because I also suggest that you do a little financial effort and buy a
DMC: Greatness
. The Black Heart is a better trinket than the Monarch Crab due to its impressive proc (7K armor is nothing to sneeze at and during boss fights it is excellent). The DMC:G on the other hand will benefit you far more in terms of avoidance (and TPS and a little bonus armor, since it provides pure agility) than the Monarch Crab. So for those fights where you need a little more HP, use BH + MC and where you need more avoidance use the BH+DMC:G (or why not, even the DMC:G+MC and keep alternating the agility procs with the dodge use effect from MC).
Post by
449558
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
meowliekacat
At your current status you are good for tanking raids (Naxx 25, VoA 10, Ulduar 10 and even ToC 10 & VoA 25 with full raid buffs). In this raid content I must say that the Essence of Gossamer is less effective as a tanking trinket than the Black Heart and the Monarch Crab.
My advice: Black Heart + Monarch Crab.
BUT.
Don't put those Solid Dragon's Eyes in the Monarch Crab. Put them in your gear. Why? Because I also suggest that you do a little financial effort and buy a
DMC: Greatness
. The Black Heart is a better trinket than the Monarch Crab due to its impressive proc (7K armor is nothing to sneeze at and during boss fights it is excellent). The DMC:G on the other hand will benefit you far more in terms of avoidance (and TPS and a little bonus armor, since it provides pure agility) than the Monarch Crab. So for those fights where you need a little more HP, use BH + MC and where you need more avoidance use the BH+DMC:G (or why not, even the DMC:G+MC and keep alternating the agility procs with the dodge use effect from MC).
I would think as a Druid his greatest stat would be stamina rather then agility
Correct, but stamina has no effect on the proc of DMC : G.
Post by
hashmel
dmc:g is more of a trash mob trinket since the proc is unpredictable and has a short cooldown and generally it doesn't matter when you dodge trash attacks since they largely don't have enrages or whatnot whereas on use dodge trinkets are made especially for those boss enrages/predictable spikes but even so stam>agil to an extent especially once you start hitting DR with agil
dmc:g, black heart, gossamer are designed primarily for trash/aoe tanking whereas monarch crab is designed primarily with bosses in mind, as an above poster stated do not put your dragon's eyes in here, at least not in the yellow socket when it could be better socketed elsewhere
don't rely on savage defense too much, it's only a single charge when you crit and only for 25% of your AP and is up no more than once per gcd, it's a less effective block for a class that can't block and should be thought of as such, it's icing on the cake
Post by
Cenan
don't rely on savage defense too much, it's only a single charge when you crit and only for 25% of your AP
and is up no more than once per gcd
Maul and Lacerate would like to disagree.
On topic: I'd prefer monarch crab, unless you have enough stamina in other places to be able to use DMC: Greatness. With your 32k health, I'd use the monarch crab, unless all your ever tanking is heroics/naxx. Though your dodge is a little low.
And Gossamer vs Crab, crab for sure. The gossamer's chance on being hit is pretty bad compared to the on use dodge.
Post by
MegaVolt
I would think as a Druid his greatest stat would be stamina rather then agility
Then you are very, very wrong. Agility is our best damage reducing stat and especially with only 35% dodge it is extremely valuable.
Post by
580
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Riox
Thank you for the replies. From what I understand, black heart, geossamer and dmc:g are better for trash, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are bad for boss tanking. Yes, I only tank heroics at the moment, but let's say that I wish to tank boss for raids, uld10 for instance, what trinket should I look out for besides crab?
Post by
hashmel
heart of iron
essence of gossamer
black heart
monarch crab
satrina's impeding scarab/juggernaut's vitality
those are the trinkets to keep an eye on and even some BC trinkets aren't terrible when just reaching 80, living root of the wildheart, commendation of kael'thas....
unless SD stacks which i highly doubt and don't really care enough to find out it doesn't it's a max of 1 charge per gcd regardless of how many times you crit within that 1 gcd, cenan, and the 1st attack that connects whether it deals 20k or 1 damage will burn that charge, swipe, berserked mangle, lacerate crits, and glyphed maul are just ways to ensure we get a crit during that gcd for that 1 charge but it's just that, 1 charge per gcd
Post by
Aadramelekh
Since trash mobs pose so little to no problems at all, then maybe you guys might want to consider this:
1) Savage Defense is VERY useful against bosses. Sure, 5K more armor would be better but the truth is that Savage Defense is excellent when a boss is the only thing that hits the Bear Tank. At 6000+ AP raid buffed, the 1500 absorption effect is pretty nice.
2) Considering the DMC:G trinket as a trash only piece is a serious underestimation. It is much more powerful than you imagine. At ~43-44% dodge raid buffed, it already suffers about 40% efficiency loss. The base formula for agility-to-dodge says we need 48 agility for 1% dodge. With 40% efficiency loss, we need ~67 agility for 1% dodge. At this level (and raid buffed with kings), the DMC:G offers 1.6% passive dodge (and ~200 armor). On proc, it offers ~5.3% dodge and ~720 armor for 15 seconds. And it procs almost every 30 seconds or so. And it is a massive advantage when the raid composition (this happens mostly in 10 man where not all the classes may be represented in raid) does not allow for buffs like
Horn of Winter
/ Strength of Earth Totem (which provides 178 agility when improved) and / or
Blessing of Kings
, since the diminishing returns effect is lower and it provides even more dodge.
Compared to the DMC:G, the Monarch Crab offers 300 dodge rating. At 44% dodge fully raid buffed, that means about 3.7-3.8% dodge for 10 seconds, once per minute. Compared to the DMC:G, this is a much lower benefit. It offers the little benefit of being controllable (use effect), but nothing more. By comparison, the Black Heart is better since the 7000 armor offers excellent damage reduction, especially against hard hitting bosses, which we deal with here.
Keep in mind though that my suggestion was to keep ALL THREE trinkets and combine them to suit the boss he is tanking (needs more HP / mitigation to fulfill the 5 second rule? Equip both stamina trinkets. Has enough HP but needs more avoidance? Monarch Crab + DMC:G. It's all about flexibility in thinking).
I shall post what I said a few times before about the ratio of agility and stamina needed to be the best possible tank in current raid content:
The issue we are looking at is the fact that in high end raid content, bosses hit like trucks. Obviously, the priority is to be prepared for the worst case scenarios (unlucky streaks of not dodging / being missed). This is because one of the basic rules of tanking is this:
As tank, your survivability should not translate in 'taking as little damage as possible' but rather in '
being able to take the most damage possible without dying
'.
In raid conditions, most bosses usually wield one weapon with very high damage, on a 2 second swing timer. The best example I can give in order to illustrate the survivability concept is General Vezax (10 man) when under the effect of
Surge of Darkness
. Usually Vezax hits for about 40000 base damage per swing. With a full tank spec and raid buffs, he hits me for about 14000. When he casts SoD, his base damage increases by 100%, up to 80000. Using Barkskin, I take about 21000-22000 damage per hit (maximum 5 hits in those 10 seconds). Using my balanced tanking gear, with all the important raid buffs, I reach about 48000 HP (and ~52% avoidance). This means I can take 2 hits back to back from Vezax during SoD and still be alive. In fact I could have 45000 HP and still achieve the same performance.
This threshold where I can survive two consecutive hits (commonly translated as 'the 5 second rule' - survive for 5 seconds without healing) from such a hard hitting boss without heals is what I usually call being a viable tank. As long as I maintain my HP above 45000, I can optimally tank Vezax. In Tier 8 content there is no gear that would allow me to survive 3 consecutive hits (with no healing).
As such, the value of 45000 HP (give or take) is probably the HP sweet spot for stamina gearing. Any more stamina won't make any difference against such raid bosses. But any more avoidance surely would.
So now I have 48000 HP and 52% avoidance. I use standard tank pieces with strength/defense/dodge. If I would change them for agility based pieces, I could trade up to 3000 HP for about 3% more dodge and more crit - meaning higher avoidance and also higher Savage Defense up time.
Once the tank has reached the standard 5 second survivability threshold for the raid content he is tanking, he can start thinking about accumulating more avoidance and TPS oriented stats. From this point on, agility based items become the superior option for the discerning Bear Tank.
PS: about the meaning of 'upgrade'...
The decision of whether an item is an upgrade or not isn't simply saying 'oh, it gives me more stamina, it's an upgrade' or the same about avoidance.
An item is an upgrade as long as it improves your survivability and threat generation when measured against the content you are currently tanking
, the hardest hits you will receive, under what conditions, single or dual wielding bosses and so on.
As a general rule of thumb, more avoidance is always welcome; only as long as you are under the '5 second rule' threshold in your current raid content, you should prioritize stamina.
Post by
176018
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
84337
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Aadramelekh
aka "the .3 second rule" when tanking algalon >.>Yeah well, Algalon is an exception since he is a
dual wielder
. Go figure. With his swing timer, Algalon can kill tanks that fast especially if he parries an attack. That's why I am so obsessed with expertise T_T
And wouldn't you assume that someone who has reached Algalon in progression already knows how to gear his character and doesn't need to ask kindergarten questions on a forum, ey? The OP obviously hasn't reached Algalon and likely never will.
Also yes, the ICD on DMC:G is 45 seconds,
CD that starts the moment it procs
. So its up time is close to 50%, since it will proc after ~30 seconds from the previous effect's end.
Post by
176018
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Aadramelekh
Well I can tell you that I have been parried on very rare occasions by Algalon, and I have 11% expertise. So my assumption is that his parry rate goes up to 15%
Q Q
Post by
176018
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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