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Guide to Feral PvP (3.2.2)
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Post by
Lightrain
Hehe, I never had a problem before that one druid. But now I almost never miss or get a resisted cyclone. usually only on rogues or mages, and the rare ret paladin.
Post by
Kaitain
That is RNG. Your resist chance is about 15% with no spell pen, whether you noticed it or not :-) And it sure can lose games.
Post by
Lightrain
Maybe, but I still wouldn't suggest gemming for spell pen until you have a very good amount of gear and a 2350+ FAP weapon.
Post by
Kaitain
Maybe to which bit?
Post by
Eleazer
Two questions, Lightrain.
1. Do I use Savage Roar while pvping. I usually only have time to maim before either killing the guy or being peeled off him. Do I just use it right away or should I wait? Granted I haven't gone into Arena's yet, but the use of it I haven't figured out yet.
2. How often should I use berzerk while pvping? At every opener? or every chance I can?
Post by
Lightrain
If you're BG'ing, it really depends. I usually only use SR or maim in BG unless I'm soloing a DK, ret or warrior. Every once in a while a FB. It's situational. You have to learn to read the situation.
In arena, I typically try to keep it up as much as possible.
There is no rotation in PvP. You have 4 different finishers and you have to read the situation to figure out which one is best to use for your specific situation and you have to do so on the fly.
I typically use SR if something is going to die quickly and there are other targets to kill. Otherwise, a maim or FB is more appropriate, depending on if he's been stunned by an outside source or not already.
BTW, I did update and add an agility stacking section to this guide.
Post by
Eleazer
Lightrain quick question, why don't you spec into improved Mark it's a 2 percent increase in all Attributes? Is it not worth the points?
Post by
Lightrain
You actually have 1 point left over if you go with a burst spec, otherwise you have no points left over and actually run out of points. I did use 1 point in Imp MotW with my burst spec, where I expect my partner to be focused rather than me and rely on my CC to keep the damage down.
Basically if you want to sacrifice points in useful talents to get 1-2% attributes, do so. The main problem is, what do you sacrifice for it?
Post by
Eleazer
I was thinking of sacrificing imp Leader of the pack. or the bear mode one using a build like this...
BG/Arena Spec
Not a big fan of glyph of rip, but it's better than mangle glyph and it does help against rogues
Post by
DrDrako
Basically if you want to sacrifice points in useful talents to get 1-2% attributes, do so. The main problem is, what do you sacrifice for it?
this is sort of one of my questions.. i usually take the points from furor.
how valuable are those extra 2 talent points, and 40 energy after shift to you Lightrain?
usually when i shift, its to get out of a slow, and im back in kitty within 2 seconds, leaving me at my already low energy.
Post by
482307
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Kaitain
Interesting Case study i noticed:
Galdiator Shael - Armory
2v2 rating
- 2847 (which i noticed because it is 2nd on EU-Cyclone. woot ferals)
Comp
- Disc Priest / Feral
Gear
- Almost completely PvP gear so 901 resilience. All Agility gemming. Zero Armor Pen.
Post by
Lightrain
Basically if you want to sacrifice points in useful talents to get 1-2% attributes, do so. The main problem is, what do you sacrifice for it?
this is sort of one of my questions.. i usually take the points from furor.
how valuable are those extra 2 talent points, and 40 energy after shift to you Lightrain?
usually when i shift, its to get out of a slow, and im back in kitty within 2 seconds, leaving me at my already low energy.
Feral is very bad at energy regen. Having the extra 40 energy is extremely valuable in PvP. Would you want to be able to go bear, mangle+maul, then go back to cat and rake+shred or shred twice pretty close to back to back?
5/5 furor is very important in arena IMO. Trying to keep feral burst up is very tough. You are almost always energy starved, so bleeds and auto attack are your only means of constant dps.
Also, imp LotP is a mandatory feral PvP talent. You can not survive as feral if you aren't getting mana back. You will go oom and be stuck in human long before anything dies. This one talent was the sole reason feral became more viable in WotLK compared to TBC.
Post by
Lightrain
Interesting Case study i noticed:
Galdiator Shael - Armory
2v2 rating
- 2847 (which i noticed because it is 2nd on EU-Cyclone. woot ferals)
Comp
- Disc Priest / Feral
Gear
- Almost completely PvP gear so 901 resilience. All Agility gemming. Zero Armor Pen.
Yep, I switched to Agi stacking for 3's, then my healer bailed and I'm stuck training a new healer. I need to respec too because I'm trying to play disc/feral, and the priest gets focused quite frequently.
I did alter the guide to include agi stacking. It is because of the resil. You need it for 3's and 5's, while not so much in 2's.
Post by
Kramp
Maybe, but I still wouldn't suggest gemming for spell pen until you have a very good amount of gear and a 2350+ FAP weapon.
Why not ? It's scarifying 3 red gems ( 60 arp or agi wich everyone can live without ) to totally negate those annoying resists. ( while getting the blue gem for the meta and activating socket bonused like +6 agi on pants ).
My gear is outdated ( deadly set with rel off pieces and spear from 5 ToC ) and I don't know why I should sacrifice a pinch of dps stats for 100% working cyclones.
Post by
Lightrain
Maybe, but I still wouldn't suggest gemming for spell pen until you have a very good amount of gear and a 2350+ FAP weapon.
Why not ? It's scarifying 3 red gems ( 60 arp or agi wich everyone can live without ) to totally negate those annoying resists. ( while getting the blue gem for the meta and activating socket bonused like +6 agi on pants ).
My gear is outdated ( deadly set with rel off pieces and spear from 5 ToC ) and I don't know why I should sacrifice a pinch of dps stats for 100% working cyclones.
Because you need all the dps you can get. I'm having issues killing people in 2's with my boat load of gear(8063ap self buffed in cat) at 1700-1800 rating with this new healer. I have 3 spell pen gems, but my gear can also handle it.
Also, I said that for Arp stacking. Agi stacking doesn't take as big of a hit if you throw 3 spell pen gems in the mix. 60 agility down out of 1200-1500 compared to 60 arp down from 340 or so depending on gear is a harsh drop.
Post by
Mangea
Interesting Case study i noticed:
Galdiator Shael - Armory
2v2 rating
- 2847 (which i noticed because it is 2nd on EU-Cyclone. woot ferals)
Comp
- Disc Priest / Feral
Gear
- Almost completely PvP gear so 901 resilience. All Agility gemming. Zero Armor Pen.
I noticed that this Feral druid (along alot of other highrated ferals)
didn't stack a single Spell Penetration gem
. Is Spell Pen not necessary if you got a dispeller (priest/shaman) as partner? Mages still got that passive talent (80 resistance), hunters got Aspect of the Wild and shamans got totems with 130 nature resist...
Also wantet to point out, that Glyph of Savage roar isn't really mandatory if you play dubble dps in 2v2, since 3 % might not matter that much (but I's a nice buff for longer fights).
Post by
Lightrain
It depends how you play. You can get away with not having any spell pen, but I know from experience that when fighting an X+Resto druid team, having 4 cyclones resisted in a row is way more costly than 3 spell pen gems and no hunter or sham is going to drop nature resist against a feral druid over their other options. That's pretty much a guarantee.
Glyph of Savage Roar is pretty much a mandatory glyph for any cat spec, pvp included. You wouldn't pull 2-3 points out of Naturalist just because it "might not matter".
What are you planning on glyphing in it's place? You have Savage Roar, Rip, Shred, and Berserk. Feral doesn't need barkskin or SI, and nothing else is useful to feral. For max output, you use the first 3, and if you have issues with getting CC'd during berserk, you get the glyph, however the benefits from the other 3 are better than berserk anyways.
How they get away with not gemming spell pen is they do so much damage the priest/sham can play very offensively with burns, added burst, and offensive dispells. Without a boat load of output, we lean on defensive and offensive cyclones.
Post by
Mangea
I see. I have Savage roar, mangle and rip atm, but with the changes coming to mangle (1min duration) I could swap that one to Berserk. Was thinking about using Frenzied regen glyph for dubble dps, but I guess that it's quite useless (maybe i'ts good for duels).
Anyway, I don't have a priest partner. Therefore I don't have to consider resocketing away my spellpen. I probably wouldn't do it anyway.
Also, I socket agility and not ArP atm, and it works fine. I've thought about swapping alot, but I'm kinda censorious about it. I've got
Scorpion
on though.
Great guide btw, Lightrain :)
Post by
Lightrain
I'm currently updating this. The info is accurate, but I'm finding a lot of old info mixed in as far as gear and such. I should have this fully updated by tomorrow.
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