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Elemental shaman and cloth armor
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Post by
taurenmoo812
I've played this game long enough to know how loot priority comes into play. If I'm in a group where theres a cloth dps, and a spell wear drops, if I have better gear then what this armor is, I'll pass it. I'll also check the cloth wearer to see if they benefit from the armor as well.
So today, I was in ToC heroic, with 2 dks, a rogue, me on my ele shaman and a healer priest. We downed the bosses and from the black night,
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47564
droped, which the priest rolled on. I also rolled on this item, purely because the fact it has a larger hit rating then my current armor. To be fair, I'm wearing
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40235
, which is mail well the hood is cloth, but my thought was since it was dps and a vast improvement over hit rating, I rolled on it too.
I won the roll, and the priest went nuts. I right away came back and said because it was spell dps based, I rolled for it due to the hit rating. Her argument was that I'm a mail wearer, and I shouldn't even roll for cloth wear period. After thinking about it I gave her the hood, but she still was arguing with me about why the hell should a shaman roll for spell wear, its not on.
Well I realised I was wrong to roll on an item she wanted, most likely for dps spec, I couldn't get over the fact she kept saying shamans shouldn't roll for cloth armor period. And yet, when I stand around in dalaran, I see both balance druids and ele shamans wearing cloth gear too.
On this instance because she wanted the item I let it go, but if a shaman or druid gets a chance at at item that can improve there gear, even if its cloth, shouldn't they still get a chance to roll on it like anyone else?
For the record too, she was wearing
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=46197
, but hers being healers gear instead of dps meant she did need it for offspec (thats not the argument).
Post by
153656
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
146899
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
My philosophy:
Main spec > Off spec, no matter what type of armor.
Post by
amythist
yup like everyone has said so far, when it comes to ele shaman the mail caster gear just isn't itemized for us, no +hit outside of tier gear, so I would have rolled need on that like no other, the priest can complain all she wants but that helm was a definite improvement over what your wearing, even without that much hit it would still be an improvement for having similar stats and a meta socket, which makes for a nice boost in your dps once filled.
the general complaint that I have seen from cloth wearing classes, I play a priest too, is that cloth is all they can wear and they run into enough competition for gear with just the 3 classes that wear cloth, before you mix in the Druids, Shaman, and Pallies that the gear could be an up for, but I am completely of the view that if the gear is an upgrade, as that helm was, you have every right to roll on it.
TLDR: Stats trump armor type, and that helm was a nice up for you
Post by
322954
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
lucius
I would have passed to the priest. I imagine many elementals would rage if a holy paladin needed '
your pants
'.
The way I see it. each class is given preference to the items of their armor type. If she was a druid, I'd see no issue with you rolling on the cloth helm against her.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
lucius
I'm sure an elemental shaman wearing
these
wouldn't feel like he didn't deserve those pants so much more than the paladin.
Amount of armor isn't the issue, it's the available options. Cloth wearers can only wear cloth. So they have to roll against every mouthbreathing druid/shaman/paladin on every drop? But when spellpower leather drops, they're forced to pass.
Priests vs shaman:
1) spellpower Mail drops, "I Win!" says the shaman
2) spellpower Leather drops, "I Win!" says the shaman
3) spellpower Cloth drops, "50/50 ok lol?" says the shaman.
Sounds kinda loothungry. Selfish shaman don't have a problem with a system designed to give them more loot, though. But that doesn't mean it's fair to other classes.
Post by
138583
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Post by
54073
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
lucius
263 mail items with spp on them ilvl200+
137 of which are resto itemised, mp5
262 leather items with spp on them ilvl 200+
188 of which have spirit on them
496 cloth items with spp on them ilvl200+
279 of which have spirit on them
Oh, one more thing:
There are exactly
37 mail items having hit and spp
- those are tier items and wg pvp stuff.
There are exactly
30 leather items having spp and hit on them
, of which just
2 are usable by shaman
(because rest are druid tier pieces.
Your scenario:
...
6) spp cloth drops with actually usefull stats on it.... ok guys... let the priest take it for his offspec shadow he never uses... ill just gem this 300 hit into the mp5 gear that dropped and see how it goes...
Count them than.
Shaman has:
96 mail items purely for ele (shared with holy paladins obviously)
74 leather items without sucky spirit (shared with paladins and druids)
217 cloth items without sucky spirit (shared with locks, priests, mages, druids, paladins)
That gives 387 items available.
Priest has 496 items available.
94 of them have hit
that gives 302 items itemised for holy, big part of which arent shared with shamans because of the lol spirit.
Available options huh?
Basically. If a Blizzard wanted shamans to roll only on Mail spp gear, they would provide more and better itemised items dont you think?
I think it's a selfish point of view. And since your filter for the priest's spellpower items includes every piece of warlock/mage/holy/shadow set armor items, it's a pretty inflated number.
If I trust the rest of your numbers, 96 + 74 + 102 (shaman) vs 236 (priest). 272 shaman options vs the 236 for a priest, poor shaman.
Also, I've healed many a heroic instance just because our group was unable to find another healer. I'm sure as hell not going to pass on the dps gear I need only because I happen to be healing. I'm not comfortable with punishing people who happen to be willing to heal in order to get the instance done, rather than hang out in Dalaran for another 30 mins LF1M Hdaily healer.
Post by
27130
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
d2thomas
@lucius
I really think you are missing the main point of the OP's arguement. What he/she is saying is that just because an item is cloth, doesn't mean a clothie can claim priority on
OFF-SPEC
cloth gear. Every stat on that helm was benefitial for the shaman, while the hit was useless for the priest. There was no reason for the clothie to claim priority on cloth off-spec gear. I feel that makes the priest loothungry, not the shaman.
Post by
338789
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Divisor
I think it's a selfish point of view. And since your filter for the priest's spellpower items includes every piece of warlock/mage/holy/shadow set armor items, it's a pretty inflated number.
If I trust the rest of your numbers, 96 + 74 + 102 (shaman) vs 236 (priest). 272 shaman options vs the 236 for a priest, poor shaman.
Also, I've healed many a heroic instance just because our group was unable to find another healer. I'm sure as hell not going to pass on the dps gear I need only because I happen to be healing. I'm not comfortable with punishing people who happen to be willing to heal in order to get the instance done, rather than hang out in Dalaran for another 30 mins LF1M Hdaily healer.
Selfish point of view huh ?
Please, mr. lucius, gorge yourself into the abundance of
Elemental gear available for emblems
. All kinds of emblems.
All other classes had the luxury of doing heroics to get some good items, and in the same time, gather emblems to get some more pieces of good gear. We didn't.
Just had a long discussion in my guild about cloth vs mail. The conclusion was that elemental shamans definitely won't get priority over cloth. But I managed to earn equal rights on off-set slot items.
Here is a
solution
from a respected source. If it's hard for you to understand that the gear problem for Elemental is real, then you fail more than Blizzard failed when they designed the gear.
Post by
lucius
I'm not sure I buy some guy's post on a different forum as a 'respected source'.
But I do think you're missing the point. Especially talking about Emblem gear, which is the perfect place to pick up cloth/leather without stepping on any toes. Spread out your filter there and elemental have some decent options.
Original poster was a nice guy, and the priest was probably unfair. I do pick up loot for Enhance/Elemental/Resto, but never when someone else wants it. Unless it's a hunter because they want everything.
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