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The Case for DPS Warriors in Heroics/Raids
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Post by
104767
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Post by
sugarzombie
#1 Blood Frenzy: Whats that you say we are the only melee DPS so how does it benefit the rest of the group/raid? Because blood frenzy improves physical damage to the target this helps everybody. 2 of 3 tank classes are melee based (warrior/druid) bloood frenzy allows them to do more dmg and build more threat allowing the rest of the players to do more damage to the main target. If you have a paly tank this isn't as big a benefit, but then again with his AOE agro a warrior can use whirlwind and sweeping strikes to do insane amounts of DPS with even better results.
it is true that more damage = more threat. keep in mind that the threat from their moves comes more from the "generates additional threat" part of the abilities... such as sunder: it's not the damage that makes the threat, it's the builtin component of the ability
#2 Commanding/Battle Shouts: Most people think this is only warrior benefit so I don't feel the need to elaborate
battle shout helps melee dps. it's no help to casters.
many tanks don't use food buffs... do you think they'll miss commanding shout? it's a nice perk, but ppl don't bring priests into groups just for fort buff.
#3 Piercing Howl: On trash pulls I like to hit this early in the battle so people can see who might break agro and its a joy for casters in AOE pulls.
i don't understand.... "see who might break aggro"??? are you saying this is so you can more quickly identify which member is not /assisting the tank? or do you mean to identify those members who start heavy dps before the mob gets within reach of the tank? .... either way, /boot the dps warrior and the dps-er who's not letting the tank tank.
#4 Sunder Armor/Execute: These can help everybody on every boss period.
spell damage is not reduced by armor. besides, the tank can apply the sunders
#5 Intimidating Shout: I have saved many groups with this ability, while it's certainly a last resort in most circumstances...at least with a warrior it is one.
bring dps warrior for his fear?! plus my prot warrior can use intimidating shout
#6 Intercept: Many a healer have I saved with this ability. I can stun the target and then DPS them enough to get them off the healer. Which is a good lead into the next point.
dps doesnt keep mobs off healers.... the tank is suppose to do that. thanks for stunning the mob, though. I'll give you that much.
#7 Plate DPS: Say either I do pull agro, I can take more damage than almost any another dps class. In fact, with the rage gain from being hit a warrior is one of the few classes that actually benefits from being hit.
skilled dps doesn't pull aggro
#8 Mortal Strike: For certain bosses this is the best dam skill in the game. Another subject most people agree with.
does MS's healing redux work on bosses? bosses are usually immune to shield bashes, silence, and counterspell. to be honest, i don't have much experience with MS.
#9 Oooomm: Thats right I will never run out of anything during a long boss fight such as curator, oz, etc.... My raid group did a 8 minute Oz fight last night when about 4 died early on. Because me and the druid DPS guys never went oommm we finished what a mana dependent dps might not have been able to.
who cares if you can dps ad infinitum, when the healer will eventually go /oom anyway? gratz on pulling through that fight, though. did you remember to compliment the tank on is damage mitigation or the healer on his mana efficiency? ... or was all the awesome coming just from you?
#10 Off tanking: OK not a dps benefit, but lets say you are having trouble on a hard pull (like some in mech) Most warriors will have a tanking set with them and can keep 1 mob busy while you pwn the rest, ala Monroes in Kara.
i agree. warriors are good to have because they can tank.
Lastly, I've had a few 5mans that included a dps warrior. It is true that they can do fantastic damage. Unfortunately, tanks are hard to come by. With everyone obsessed with "zombcritzomgwow", there are plenty of hunters, rogues, mages, warlocks out there. The warrior/druid/pally will be asked to tank almost every time.
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Post by
Aris
Only if you have a prot pally who doesnt need as much, if any, CC.
If you are with a prot war or bear tank, you are limited to which instances you can go to. Some just really need 3 CC's, like heroic Shattered Halls. Most though you can get away with 2 CC's, and having one pure dps wont hurt you too bad.
The real problem isnt if your viable for any heroic instance or not, its do you bring more to the table than other DPS class's. Like say a mage, hunter, warlock, rogue, or shadow priest. All of which have much better CC and utility than you do, while also doing good dps.
Instances are about control. The better you are at controlling whats happening, the better your group does. And unfortunately, dps warriors bring very little control to the table. Off tank ability is not a CC. Its a hinderance on the healer and nothing more. Also if you dont have a prot pally, one of your main dps abilities (whirlwind) is, for the most part, off limits. Which is a substantial hit to your dps capabilities.
Raids are a completely different story as you tend to not need nearly as much, if any, CC capabilities.
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103342
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104767
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Post by
Talpacc
Sorry, but taking a DPS warrior or rogue into an instance is a handicap in most cases. I don't WANT another melee class pulling aggro from me, and many bosses do AOE blasts that will slaughter any melee class but the tank in 1-2 shots.
Your healer can only efficiently heal one tank. If there's an off-tank, I want it to be a druid or pally, or, at last resort, another prot warrior. Anything with less than 12k armor and HP is a liability as a tank, and at close range to a boss.
Might be different for Rogues, but if a DPS warrior is pulling aggro off the tank then they're not watching their aggro well at all and probably shouldn't be in the group. That, or the tank sucks but I typically find that isn't the case. Plus AoE might be a problem in 5 mans but in raids such as Void Reaver, the only reason any melee DPS aside from a tank should be taking any damage is from the random Arcane Bomb that went off too close. Pounding AoE is ridiculously easy to avoid, so is Whirlwind from HKM and Lurker and Prince's AoE as well.
Post by
Kirbydude65
Raids are a completely different story as you tend to not need nearly as much, if any, CC capabilities.
No not much different. On the first Pull in TK we CC Three of the mobs and tank two of them. Double (Sometimes Triple) Sheep the mobs and Ice Trap. CC is just as required in raids, probably more required, than in normal 5 mans and such.
However when it comes to building the raid you have to think about what class benefits what class.
For example, if I was just thinking about what melee class can deal the most damage by themselevs, I'd pick nothing but rogues. But a party of 5 rogues won't get that far at all. They're DPS would be capped out at around 700-800.
However if I where to say bring in an enhancement shaman and throw down a windfury totem, HEY! That DPS of the rogues increased and the enhancement shaman with the buff out classed the othe rogue we where gonna bring...
So than you swap out another rogue for an Arms or a Fury Warrior that gives battle shout. OH WOW. Another increasement on upon DPS.
Its not question of can you do this or can you do that. It's what does your class bring to the table for that group. In 5mans alot of the times it might only be the fact that a rogue can stun lock, sap and blind while all you can do is OT. In 25mans and other raids is where DPS warrior's truely shine.
Post by
123437
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Post by
Aris
Raids are a completely different story as you tend to not need nearly as much, if any, CC capabilities.
No not much different. On the first Pull in TK we CC Three of the mobs and tank two of them. Double (Sometimes Triple) Sheep the mobs and Ice Trap. CC is just as required in raids, probably more required, than in normal 5 mans and such.
Using your own example. You need 3 CC, out of 25 people. You dont need double or triple sheep if your mages dont suck. And an Ice trap, that makes 4 cc dps class's.
So 4/25, lets say you got 7 healers and 2 tanks. thats 13 out of 25 people, you got room for 12 NON CC dps class's. Using your own example.
This is why what i said is factual. When you got 25 spots in a group, fitting in non cc dps class's is much easier, and actually beneficial.
Post by
127054
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Post by
Warrioreuel
I have 3300 hours on my tank now and have tanked every 5 man instance that exist in regular and heroic. If I am putting the group together and you are a DPS warrior, you are not getting in my group. You simply have no CC, and no you are not tough enough to off tank anything, yer just a drain on the healer. All you are is a hinderance to the group. Now that said, sure its possible if the group is first class and everyone is a highly skilled player. Secondly, I see very few DPS warriors that are worthy. Yes, you pvp nuts can have the gear and dish out the dmg but its not common. If I want DPS, I wil seek out any other class first before a DPS warrior, after all not only do you get dps but you also get CC. If you want to be a DPS warrior, thats fine, just do us all a favor and stop trying to shoe-horn yourself into a 5 man where you dont belong.
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120670
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28434
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