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Where to get expertise starting out?
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Post by
Shensu
All I am normally a prot pally but really working on my ret set now. My biggest issue is the lack of easy to get expertise. I am gemming all slots with 16 exertise, my gloves and bracers both have the +15 enchant. I know there is a ring in H GD that has it but other then that I can not find anything with it on. Getting in a Naxx run is not the easiest because of RL commitments and the fact I tank for a group of friends all night.
We are either farming heroics for conquest badges or in a raid on ToC or Ulduar. Is there something I am missing. Sitting at 18 expertise before eating a food buff but I am the type of guy that hates being low on key stats even in off specs. Any suggestions would be helpful thank you.
Post by
GenXCub
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43869
Post by
Shensu
Only time you should use SoV was in longer fights where you can get 5 stacks so the bonus damage kicks in. I ran with a better geared pally using that and my dps was better then his even with 14 expertise at the time. Hate to loose dps just to be capped :(. But yes thank you I forgot to add my dislike for that. I am glyphed for SoR and liking that alot. If there are no gear suggestions I will rethink trying that glyph.
Post by
150265
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
If you can't get 5 stacks of SoV onto a heroic boss, then it really doesn't make a difference what seal you use, or what expertise you have, if you're downing a boss in 20 seconds flat.
Ask yourself the following questions:
1) Are you hit capped? (#1 priority)
2) Are you strength capped? (#2 priority)
If neither of the above two constraints are met, then you shouldn't be gemming for expertise.
Try attacking from behind.
Post by
114144
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
That should tell you how important Expertise is to a Ret paladin ;p
Edit: Ok, being a little more helpful, here's the link to the stat weightings thread:
http://www.wowhead.com/?forums&topic=101762&p=1246903
If you go to the bottom, you'll see Quest's final weightings on which stats are more important.
Two things to note:
1) Expertise and Strength come equally weighted on gems. So +16 Str is swappable with +16 Expertise.
2) As Strength goes up, Expertise becomes more valuable. As Strength goes down, Expertise becomes less valuable.
At current gear levels, there is no way that Expertise can be more valuable than Strength. So until gear goes up through the roof, Strength will be a better gemming option, and Expertise will be obtained as and when it comes on gear on the side.
Post by
Shensu
Thank you for all the responses
Post by
valundar
That should tell you how important Expertise is to a Ret paladin ;p
Edit: Ok, being a little more helpful, here's the link to the stat weightings thread:
http://www.wowhead.com/?forums&topic=101762&p=1246903
If you go to the bottom, you'll see Quest's final weightings on which stats are more important.
Two things to note:
1) Expertise and Strength come equally weighted on gems. So +16 Str is swappable with +16 Expertise.
2) As Strength goes up, Expertise becomes more valuable. As Strength goes down, Expertise becomes less valuable.
At current gear levels, there is no way that Expertise can be more valuable than Strength. So until gear goes up through the roof, Strength will be a better gemming option, and Expertise will be obtained as and when it comes on gear on the side.
Expertise is more important than strength until cap.
at EJ they weigh it as less for 1 reason only: In all BiS gear you are expertise capped.
Otherwise it is more important than strength, but less than hit. (expertise only effects 75-85 % of our attacks.. but in that 75-85% is the most important of our atacks)
So put as much weight into getting expertise capped as you do your hit.
Post by
darkdog
I would'nt try to go for the cap i would go with 10 exp without the gylph that will give you 20 exp with sov. 2 good places to get exp pre raid is from the ring from reg toc and heroic gun there more of a rogue ring since they have agi/exp/ap but since there are almost no str dps ring pre naxx you don't have much of a choice
Post by
150265
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
valundar
Expertise is more important than strength until cap.
at EJ they weigh it as less for 1 reason only: In all BiS gear you are expertise capped.
Otherwise it is more important than strength, but less than hit. (expertise only effects 75-85 % of our attacks.. but in that 75-85% is the most important of our atacks)
So put as much weight into getting expertise capped as you do your hit.
Where are you getting your information?
Im trying to locate the thread that had the maths.
When i find it, ill link it.
until then, think about it. +hit reduces your chance to miss .
and expertise reduces your chance to be dodged/parried.
If standing in front of the mob, expertise is vastly superior as you double dip. (hence why tanks like it) but standing behind still prevents dodge.
It only effects melee attacks.... not spells. Thats why +hit still beats it. (exo, cons) seeing as how all our other main attacks (ds, cs,white, judge) are considered melee attacks, this does effectively just about as much as hit.
Ignoring expertise is as smart as ignoring +hit.
Edit: Even in the guide
http://www.wowhead.com/?forums&topic=101947
it places expertise at same lvl as strength. (and it is given at the same rate as str and hit as well.)
The more AP you have the more a miss/dodge/parry hurts your dps, so this becomes more important as you gain better gear.
Post by
150265
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
valundar
Im trying to locate the thread that had the maths.
When i find it, ill link it.
until then, think about it. +hit reduces your chance to miss .
and expertise reduces your chance to be dodged/parried.
If standing in front of the mob, expertise is vastly superior as you double dip. (hence why tanks like it) but standing behind still prevents dodge.
It only effects melee attacks.... not spells. Thats why +hit still beats it. (exo, cons) seeing as how all our other main attacks (ds, cs,white, judge) are considered melee attacks, this does effectively just about as much as hit.
Ignoring expertise is as smart as ignoring +hit.
Edit: Even in the guide
http://www.wowhead.com/?forums&topic=101947
it places expertise at same lvl as strength. (and it is given at the same rate as str and hit as well.)
The more AP you have the more a miss/dodge/parry hurts your dps, so this becomes more important as you gain better gear.
From Elitist Jerks:
http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t68951-retribution_3_2_a/#Stats
It is recommended that you gem all STR after you are hitcapped. and
Do not gem for expertise, let it come naturally with gear or glyphs
If you would like, I can test this on a training dummy tonight. By replacing all my strength gems until I'm expertise capped and comparing 10 minute tests on target dummies. You can check my armory in my sig.
Edit: I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying your opinion is different from what I've read.
If you also note, they mention that you will be expertise capped in the gear they use.
And yes, that test would be wonderful, as for the life of me i cant find the math.
Been looking for long time now.
I would like to know for sure as well.
Post by
Squishalot
That would make sense, and would go naturally with the "let it come with armour and glyphs" comment.
I had just assumed that the hit vs expertise was just how it scaled into a % hit chance, that hit scaled better than expertise based on dodge only.
This is backed up by the fact that once you're soft-capped expertise, it should add zero value as far as weightings are concerned.
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