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3.3.3 Holy Paladin end-game PvE guide [Outdated 4.0+]
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Post by
96875
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Post by
Bethia
Great guide esp now that I've offspecced as holy! One thing I've not learned is which type of flask is preferred for raiding? Flask of Frost Wyrm (incr in spellpower) or Flask of Pure Mojo (mana regen)?
Post by
161859
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Post by
pezz
I've always raided with Frost Wyrm. Mojo doesn't give all that much regen compared to losing out on so much SP.
And UhOh, I threw in a comment about meleeing with SoW.
And now I'll have to put it which flask to use, I might need to use that last post after all.
Post by
161859
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Bethia
Thanks for your rapid replies!
Post by
svirve
yeah its great to judge every cooldown if the boss isnt in melee range. but its more beneficial to just throw some melee swings in on the boss and only judge to keep your haste buff up.
judgement of wisdom
will only return about 89 mana per proc since its base mana.. and since it has a 4 sec internal cool down youll barely be able to get your mana back from judging it.
Ofcourse it's better to melee the boss but that's not always an option. And actually the chance of you being able to judge is way greater than the chances of you being able to melee (casting resets the swing timer). Spending time positioning yourself to melee the boss is time spent not healing as well.
There is no ICD on JoW. Try judging on a target dummy and you'll see lots of times when you get 89 mana 2-3 times on one judge.
On top of that you only need 3(less than what divine intellect gives you) int over your base mana in order to gain mana from a SoW proc when Judging. On a 20k mana pool you'll get more than 400% mana back if you've specced into benediction.
Post by
valundar
Something you missed valundar is that JoW cost 5% base mana while SoW returns 4% of maximum mana. So as long as you have more than 3 int on your gear SoW will return more than 5% base mana.
It has always procced SoW for that matter.
I know he wrote the words there but it just felt like he had misinterpreted it ;p.
No, that was exactly what i was getting at.
there ya go assuming...
hahahaha
Post by
299926
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Post by
151908
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pezz
I'm not sure what you mean by 'triggers global cooldowns for a FoL'. Your FoLs are always going to trigger the global cooldown seems to be the relevant answer, but I doubt that's what you were actually asking.
You should never
avoid
stacking haste. You should never avoid getting any of the stats I listed, ever. You should only worry about your stats getting out of balance. If you are just seeing your haste naturally rise as your gear gets better and it isn't leading to any mana problems, it's a good thing. I hope that answers your question, anyways.
As far as the discussion about judging and meleeing for mana goes. I've said in my guide that meleeing and judging can both be good ways to get mana back, but not to put yourself at risk by doing so, and not to put any raid members at risk by doing so. I think this is enough good advice without needlessly splitting hairs.
I'll reiterate it here though: If you don't know the fight, don't risk meleeing. Just because DBM doesn't have a big countdown coming up for an AoE attack with a menacing sounding name, doesn't mean you can't kill yourself in some stupid way by running all over the place.
Post by
96875
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Post by
svirve
well if getting into melee position heal starves the tank what does swining enough in the ten seconds the judgement is on the boss do? the 89 mana... even if you proc the judgement every swing... isnt even going to be noticeable in the few times youll be swinging on the boss anyway. plus the SoW proc has nothing to with what you judge..
a holy pally with an end game raid build going deep into prot should have 5 for 5 in divinity giving them the largest incr in judgement of light heals.. so yes.. holy pallies should always judge light now..
and i dont know about anyone else but ive never lost a tank getting into position, usually a holy shock or two will get me there. the only bosses that i really rely on judgement SoW returns due to not wanting to risk melee'ing are mimiron, kologarn and thorium
Either i cant understand anything of what you're going at or you completely misunderstood me.
Having to position yourself in order to melee a boss means you're focusing on something else than healing, this might as well mean that your tank gets killed or another member of the raid gets killed by something else because you're busy moving around your char instead of watching health bars.
I never said that you'll be getting the mana from standing there swinging for 10 sec oO You're the one that suggested meleeing in the first place. I was presenting the pros of judging and if you actually read my post i'm pretty sure you'd know that. SoW has nothing to do with
what
you judge yes, but it will still proc
from
judging thus it's very relevant.
How can it matter in anyway, anywhere, anyhow what judgement the paladin is using? In a 25man raid you'll most definately have two paladins. In a 10 man raid you'll almost certainly have two paladins which means that even if you would like to use "Judgement of the Reborn Noob King" you'll most probably already have JoW already up on the target.
I'm not saying it's as easy as saying pie to let your tank die when positioning, but it's your job to keep him alive. Running around doing other stuff means you might as well fail at your job.
Bottom line: I was presenting the advantage of judging when possible because of the massive amounts of mana you're able to get. You brought up melee, i validated that melee was better but not as available as judging, and the rest is a mystery to me.
Post by
134104
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Post by
pezz
I completely disagree with prioritizing SP though. If you're pre-casting on a tank, SP becomes almost irrelevant. Don't take that comment out of context, SP is still useful... it's just not a choice stat.
I agree. Where I was in raiding when I had to move I no longer cared about my spell power. It was good enough for everything I was expected to do. Hence my comment about a point at which SP is no longer a high priority. But when I wrote this guide I was trying to help players go from first hitting 80 to Crusader instances. For those fresh 80s, spell power is a major concern for them in trying to get through to harder content.
And then: Once you're in Ulduar gear, just ignore SP. You have enough.
Couldn't agree more, but as I said, I'm trying to help complete newbies as well.
I'll mention using a Prismatic to meet meta gem requirements as well, since I've seen quite a few paladins decide to go that route.
Post by
134104
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pezz
Alright, check the flask information again, I changed it a little bit to reflect that. Still though, Frost Wyrm is absolutely fantastic for basically the first half of end game content.
Post by
228908
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pezz
Any idea what those gems are called? If no one tells me I'll look it up tomorrow, but as for now I'm pretty exhausted.
Edit: Fine. I'll do it. Thanks for your help, Wowhead.
We seem to have
10 int/5 mp5
and
12 sp/10 int
Post by
134104
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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