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Retribution or not? Tanking in a fixed group, PvE only.
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Post by
Makarion
Hello people,
I'd like some advice. I've read through the FAQ and the linked forums, but it seems that no one really bothers with a discussion regarding specs versus group compositions. Also, there's very little interest, seemingly, to discuss *anything* regarding levels under, oh, 70.
So, here's my situation. I'm a paladin, level 30, well-geared (mostly blues close to my level, focusing on Str > Sta > Crit; some agi tends to sneak in). I'm currently a fairly classic Retribution spec, using SoR (although I'm constantly wondering on whether I should use SoC).
About 90% of my adventuring time (I craft a lot on the side - smithing) is in a fixed group with an experienced discipline priest and a somewhat novice beastmaster hunter - both are decently geared, although not always quite as neurotically up to date.
We enjoy hunting together and following quest chains (we'd been doing instances a lot more if the darn things were more easily accessible!), preferably with mobs about 3-5 levels over our own. I'm the puller and tank, and due to a priest in the group, I only ever use Lay on Hands and the bubble if we get a horrible pull - I don't need to heal otherwise, although I actually like being a healer. I am never afraid to grab two mobs at once, since we have a hunter pet to off-tank if necessary, and three is feasible as well.
Now, given that situation, and given that I like to contribute at least a little dps (since I don't need to heal, and we don't, generally, need extra heals, either) - would I be better off aiming for a protection build, maybe looking for aoe dps versus my current single-target dps? I have no clue on how the numbers for those compare, nor on how to calculate them. I am sufficiently rugged as a tank in my current retribution build (using Conviction and Crusade), and I would imagine that improves with a shield, but I have zero experience with that tree, so I am not sure what impact the talents of the Protection line would have. Will I still do reasonable dps?
Post by
225109
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Post by
Makarion
To give a bit more perspective - my paladin is one of my favourite characters, although not my highest by far (that's my hunter, currently at 73). I love her dearly, but since I have much more game time than my husband and our friend, I keep her around the same level the priest and hunter are, so we can always play together when we can find the time.
I *wish* my husband would be tanking, as he's very good at it (since, oh, before EQ1 - we're a little grizzled in the MMO thing, even if we're neither powergamers nor enthusiastic about raiding); it would allow me to be a healer (probably holy paladin, or I could unearth my resto druid, currently languishing as a bank alt).
At first, I played her as a holy paladin tank, and I could hold reasonable aggro, but I couldn't put a dent in a pack of warm butter, let alone worry mobs with my dps. It started to hurt my enjoyment of the class, so I switched to retribution, but we've been on a good roll recently, and I'm wondering what would be best for our overall group dps. Since we rarely play for more than 2-3 hours, I want to minimalize downtime and keep our little band rolling smoothly. With me having more time to explore options, I am willing to respec or learn a new routine if that were to be an improvement. So, suggestions on specs, seals, weapon types and so forth very welcome!
Beliketh
PS. We're currently ensconced in Stranglethorn, and doing quite well. We hope to aim for the Scarlet Monastery, if we ever can get in, soon.
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225109
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Post by
Squishalot
Another opinion from someone who has tried all three specs as he levelled (and ignored Holy entirely afterwards).
You don't lose a significant amount of single-target damage by spec'ing as Prot at level 30. It's not until about level 50 or so, when you get Crusader Strike, then L60 and Divine Storm, that Prot starts to fall by the wayside.
You say that you're confident about pulling one mob, and aren't too concerned about pulling two mobs because the pet can off-tank. I'm currently playing a Prot Warrior/Rogue with my girlfriend, no healer, and at L26, have no qualms in taking on 2-3 elite mobs in the Stockades, 3-4 if she has time to sap one first. (Yes, they're level 24, but they're elite! I'll pull up to 5 equal-level normal monsters and cleave them down.)
It does sound very tedious. My personal thought is that if you have minimal playtime, then you want to burn through things as quickly as possible, and that typically involves AoE. At level 30, you've got Blessing of Sanctuary, a 40 second cooldown on your stuns, increased armour, damage mitigation, extra Strength (or extra healing, whichever you prefer), and extra Dodge. If you friend / husband is a good healer, then he'll be able to keep you going against pretty much anybody.
The other thing is - if you can pull 3 people, because of abilities like Consecration, you'll do much more damage than you would against a single target by being a Retribution paladin.
Use Seal of Light, and Judgement of Light to keep your health up, or switch to Seal/Judgement of Wisdom if you find that you're running out of mana. If possible, try to pick up a shield spike for some extra damage when you block. Some people like Devotion Aura for extra damage mitigation, I have always preferred Retribution Aura for levelling, to take down your opponents faster, especially if you have someone to heal you.
As a Prot paladin, with a healer, you'd have no qualms going through the early areas of Scarlet Monastery.
Post by
Makarion
Thank you for all the replies! Plenty of things to mull over amongst your suggestions. The input is much appreciated :).
As I said, I have ample playtime myself, but the pally specifically was agreed would stick close in level to the others, so it's effectively limited somewhat to their online time.
The shield spike sounds like a very good idea. Those take the place of enchantments, right? I've currently got an MP5 enchantment on my shield, for when I decide to go sword & board - even as retribution, I carry that on me, just in case!
Post by
123609
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Post by
Squishalot
Why do people keep thinking that you need three DPS to run low level instances?
With a good healer, I've two-manned my way up to Hellfire Peninsula... it was slow, granted, but it worked!
Makarion - yes, shield spikes take the place of enchantments. If you can afford to, pick up a shield with as high block value as possible. If you have a spike and you use Retribution Aura, it means that you'll do damage if you block, and you'll do damage if they hit you.
Mana won't be an issue
as long as you have enough mobs
beating up on you. Back yourself and your healer to keep you alive, and don't be afraid to pull groups. Check out svirve's thread "Consecrating your way to ding" - that's got some general tips on how to solo your way as Prot (in terms of what skills to use etc).
Post by
Llora
Why do people keep thinking that you need three DPS to run low level instances?
Indeed .. Id say, got Prot and three-man the Dungeons, maybe pick up another DPS from lfg. May depend on just how novice the Hunter is and it may take (a lot ) longer, but this way you'll all learn to play your toons to the limit :)
Concerning your personal dps, as prot + healer you can pull an insane amount of mobs, so you're bound to get even higher dps from Consecration. Even in dungeons, where you won't be able to pull as many mobs, you'll still do crazy dps. Since Patch 2.4, tanks (especially Palladins) seem to be top dps in low level dungeons. At least i have never experienced any of the overnuking dps problems which were commonplace way back, but instead got some tanks who really liked to show off their OP DPS by posting recount every other pull, where they were quite a bit ahead of the dps.
Oh, and don't let being an unkillable deathmachine of holy awesomness get to your head ;) If anything goes wrong (Healer disconnects, drops his cigarette into the wastebasket, spills his coffee on the keyboard .. not that any of these ever happend to me... nooo way *cough*) you will still go down fast.
Post by
TheJohan
Tank and healer can do most lowlevel instances, because.. Bosses dont enrage.
Dps just makes it take a little less time.
To OP: I vote prot. You'll thank yourself for learning how to tank while leveling.
Post by
Squishalot
Tank and healer can do most lowlevel instances, because.. Bosses dont enrage.
Dps just makes it take a little less time.
To OP: I vote prot. You'll thank yourself for learning how to tank while leveling.
Well, not quite. DPS around can take out adds and the like, before they pile up. VC is one such thought - a healer might be able to keep up a tank through VC and two adds, but not all 4. So they do have a purpose... sometimes.
Post by
TheJohan
Well i did say
most
lowlevel instances. :) Sometimes you really need em.
Post by
123609
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