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Who's getting tired of paladin nerfs?
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Post by
153979
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Bairforem
Simple: When your class is over powered, they will be nerfed down and nerfed down a lot for balance.
You can't #$%^& about nerfs when your class in fact needs it.
Post by
65116
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
valundar
Wow... weren't the top of yer class eh?
Nop, never said I was... But I m sure that most of the rets out there that have killed me aren't either. They can just press 3 buttons ......
I wanna point out 2 things here:
1: "You can die only if you are facing a very skillful , equally geared player."
So, you are saying that Ret pallies should be able to be killed by undergeared/unskilled people?
Also, If you (as a mage) allow a ret to get in range.... you deserve to die.
well maybe your are right about this one .... but w8 a sec, wasn't arcane nerfed to the ground cause it could 2-shot ppls ? So, you should be able to 2-shot ppl when you get in range?
2: "On the other hand, your class is what I like to call a hybrid class, like druids. You can be anything in the game, but, in my point of view, you should excel in only one of them and preferably not the dps one"
SO..... druids should have their tanking and dps (kitty and boom) nerfed to the ground... they are healers after all.....
Then there is warriors dps... nerf that %^&*. they are tanks.
shammies cant dps.. they are heals NERF THEM.
Priests healing? naw they be shadow dps mon.... NERF NERF NERF
Well you are kinda pushing this to the edge. Let me explain this some more. Every class has its main role which you should take into account when you are rolling a char. For example, warriors ( in my opinion ) are the best tanks, so they shouldn't top the meters that easily. If you want to top the meters, you should be 10 times more skilled and 10 times more precise about your gear than the other dps classes.
I had a dps war guildmate back when kara was in fassion, when noone would take a dps war in a group cause it sounded like a joke. He was so good that he was on top in every raid... I played his char with his instructions and managed to be fourth in the meters ( had only been a tank till then, no idea how to dps ) ....
I know noone wants his class to be nerfed, but stating that ret is not OP .... well that is simply not correct !
Arcane was nerfed because you can 2 shot from across the battlefield. That is vastly different from having to be standing on ya.
Yes we should be able to WTF PWN clothies when we keep you in range.
As should ANY melee class.(kitties, warrs, rogues, shammies, dk's)
Mage= glass cannon.
Ret= has big hammer that shatters glass
It is YOU that has it wrong.
I took nothing to the edge.
I see mages a vending machines. so they shouldn't be able to top the charts. (see how ridiculous that sounds?)
I really dont care what role you see any class as having.
The FACT is that paladins have 3 rolls.
If we could do those rolls at the same time... then yes you are right.
BUT we can't.
Deal with it.
And i agree. Ret needs a nerf. AND a buff.
Nerf burst IF(and only if) ya give us death grip/charge/wing clip/ or an MS effect to CS.
There problem solved.
Post by
286251
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Silversmith
Excuse my offtipicness, but:
The FACT is that paladins have 3 rolls.
paladins have 3 rolls.
3 rolls
rolls
ROLES, DAMNIT, ROLES!
Post by
Synectics
Let's all get one thing straight: A class is not OP because they are easy to play. Period.
Whether you press 1 button or 10 buttons really has no basis here. What many of you seem to be arguing is that it is unfair that Ret Paladins can do 15k damage by pressing two or three buttons.
So what if they had to align their stars, so to speak? Does that mean that doing 15k damage in their first burst is
not
OP? Personally, any class that can do 15k before I even know which direction they came from is OP -- no matter how they did it.
And while we're speaking of burst, I think everyone (Blizzard included) seems to completely ignore WHY we burst. It has nothing to do with the fact that our abilities hit hard -- it has to do with the fact that all of our abilities are instant-cast and go on (somewhat) long cooldowns.
This means we unleash the ^&*!ing fury, then wait a few seconds before we do it again. OF COURSE THAT'S GOING TO BE BURST. :P
Making SoV/C viable is nice, but talk about a long wind-up time.
Just thinking out loud here.
Post by
valundar
Excuse my offtipicness, but:
The FACT is that paladins have 3 rolls.
paladins have 3 rolls.
3 rolls
rolls
ROLES, DAMNIT, ROLES!
You prefer biscuits?
mmmmm yummmmm
Post by
Synectics
Excuse my offtipicness, but:
my offtipicness, but:
my offtipicness
offtipicness
ROLES, DAMNIT, ROLES!
DAMNIT, ROLES!
DAMNIT
Topic,
dammit
, topic!
Post by
Lightrain
Psssssss-!
You missed the sarcasm there.
My sarcasm detector is broken :(
I definitely heard the sarcasm when you
spoke
your very articulate paragraph to the forum community about how you have an over geared paladin, and an under geared druid and rogue.
Show me 3 armory links, or you are just another troll with a lack of experience/gear/common sense.
(See my armory links? I'm not ashamed/scared of what I say or what people think of me)
Besides. I didn't make this thread to have
TROLLS/TOOLS
coming in saying
"ZOMGQQWTFRETQQOPQQWTFQQNERFNERFQQ."
You are the REASON I made this thread. Go fly off a cliff, and QQ about the shaman that did it to you.
Ret has become a support class. Yes. It does "ok" dps(not really burst anymore), does a bit of healing in the process as well as being able to boost a bit of off survival, and you QQ because it takes forever to kill a class that is designed to support and lengthen the lives of himself and his partner while putting out support dps, with your rogue, who can't heal himself at all, and has never really been able to rick roll a paladin in general....
Seriously....
Post by
Edimmu
What i don't get is why they keep nerfing rets burst its all we have unlike other classes we don't have a slow debuff a healing debuff or a casting speed/melee speed debuff. Without Burst damage a healer can either just heal though our damage or run away from us. Well i guess you can just roll a rogue and get healing/cast speed/movement debuff and burst damage.
But
rogues
can't
bubble,
so
it's
fine.
and rogues killed you how many times?
Post by
zoomie
The reason everyone is complaining is because everyone seems to think that paladins are supposed to be a super class that can destroy everyone while every other class in the game has no chance at beating a paladin. You could go stomp every class in the game except a hunter or druid then go omg hunters need nerfed! Druids need nerfed! I can beat every class except them! Quit complaining becuase you are terrible players. Thats why you guys pvp in the first place, its the only way you can get gear because you still get points for losing.
Plus people are learning that blizzard is just changing things when people complain. They don't think about anything. People are complaining about pvp? Lets nerf this class. People are still complaining? Lets nerf them more. The casuals complain because they can't raid? It must not be the fact that they are terrible, horrible players and don't understand a thing about raid mechanics, lets just change the emblem system and get them gear.
Blizzard is nerfing paladins again becuase of pvp, AGAIN. You stupid welfare losers are ruining it again. You are so terrible at raiding that you can't do that so you resort to pvp. Even though pvp is designed to let you get your pvp gear even when you lose 100% of the time, it still isn't enough so you have to complain when you get your ass kicked. So people complain. Pvp nerfs come in, and then it hurts PVE twice as bad. Just accept the fact that your terrible players and stop playing. The general consensus on my battlegroup on the alliance side is "When they let us change factions, I'm going to go horde side and stop losing battlegrounds!" (Even though we win 2/3 isle of conquest, WSG, and AV). So.... faction changing from alliance to horde is suddenly going to make you a better pvper? Switching from having a free pvp trinket as a human to a warstomp as a tauren is going to change the course of an entire 40 man battleground? I hate pvpers, they are the dumbest players in the game.
Another thing, people need to learn how to lose. PVP is a two way thing. There is a winning side, and a losing side. If you win 100% of every pvp fight you ever get into (which it seems most of you think you should win all the time for some stupid reason) then that means someone else is losing 100% of the time. There is a 50 50 chance. You win, or you lose. Get over it. The people who get really high arena ratings get there with a thing called
SKILL
. It is the same thing that PVErs have that lets them kill bosses. Not everyone has
SKILL
. The people who
THINK
they are good and deserve a 2000 arena rating but don't have one just don't have skill. They say "I would have a 2000 arena rating but *insert class here* is always kicking my ass in arenas." It isn't the class, its the player behind the class. I know it is hard to understand because you guys are playing a system designed to gear up the losers. If you are always losing in pvp, then your a loser. get over it.
Post by
PureGold
The reason everyone is complaining is because everyone seems to think that paladins are supposed to be a super class that can destroy everyone while every other class in the game has no chance at beating a paladin. You could go stomp every class in the game except a hunter or druid then go omg hunters need nerfed! Druids need nerfed! I can beat every class except them! Quit complaining becuase you are terrible players. Thats why you guys pvp in the first place, its the only way you can get gear because you still get points for losing.
Plus people are learning that blizzard is just changing things when people complain. They don't think about anything. People are complaining about pvp? Lets nerf this class. People are still complaining? Lets nerf them more. The casuals complain because they can't raid? It must not be the fact that they are terrible, horrible players and don't understand a thing about raid mechanics, lets just change the emblem system and get them gear.
Blizzard is nerfing paladins again becuase of pvp, AGAIN. You stupid welfare losers are ruining it again. You are so terrible at raiding that you can't do that so you resort to pvp. Even though pvp is designed to let you get your pvp gear even when you lose 100% of the time, it still isn't enough so you have to complain when you get your ass kicked. So people complain. Pvp nerfs come in, and then it hurts PVE twice as bad. Just accept the fact that your terrible players and stop playing. The general consensus on my battlegroup on the alliance side is "When they let us change factions, I'm going to go horde side and stop losing battlegrounds!" (Even though we win 2/3 isle of conquest, WSG, and AV). So.... faction changing from alliance to horde is suddenly going to make you a better pvper? Switching from having a free pvp trinket as a human to a warstomp as a tauren is going to change the course of an entire 40 man battleground? I hate pvpers, they are the dumbest players in the game.
Another thing, people need to learn how to lose. PVP is a two way thing. There is a winning side, and a losing side. If you win 100% of every pvp fight you ever get into (which it seems most of you think you should win all the time for some stupid reason) then that means someone else is losing 100% of the time. There is a 50 50 chance. You win, or you lose. Get over it. The people who get really high arena ratings get there with a thing called
SKILL
. It is the same thing that PVErs have that lets them kill bosses. Not everyone has
SKILL
. The people who
THINK
they are good and deserve a 2000 arena rating but don't have one just don't have skill. They say "I would have a 2000 arena rating but *insert class here* is always kicking my ass in arenas." It isn't the class, its the player behind the class. I know it is hard to understand because you guys are playing a system designed to gear up the losers. If you are always losing in pvp, then your a loser. get over it.
I think I fell in love just now.
Post by
zoomie
I think I fell in love just now.
Nobody is ever going to match my skill in wall of text. I have it talented, even though its a pvp talent and I use it in PVE content.
Post by
Synectics
Though I assure you, zoomie, I read your entire wall of text, this is what stuck out most to me:
I hate pvpers, they are the dumbest players in the game.
This is just like the assumption that all ____ faction players are ____.
Every side has their idiots. There are plenty -- I stress, PLENTY -- of idiots trying to PvE, just as there are plenty of idiots who PvP.
If I said that, "All PvE players are the dumbest players in the game," you'd get *!@#ed, and rightly so.
Another thing that really stuck out to me:
They say "I would have a 2000 arena rating but *insert class here* is always kicking my ass in arenas." It isn't the class, its the player behind the class. I know it is hard to understand because you guys are playing a system designed to gear up the losers. If you are always losing in pvp, then your a loser. get over it.
For the most part, I agree, but you have to realize something -- sometimes, it IS the class. Just as every class does NOT do equal DPS (compare a Retadin to a Rogue for a fair example), not every class has a fair chance against another class. Period.
In PvE, you can narrow it down to numbers -- who does the most DPS. But in PvP (and of course, to an extent, PvE), you have a lot of things that just can't be shown in numbers -- a Paladin's HoF, a Rogue's Cloak of Shadow, a Mage's Frost Nova... the list goes on and on. These things aren't easily balanced.
In PvE, you can increase a class's DPS by 5%. In PvP, it's very hard to increase someone's survivability, because there isn't a magic number for it that you can simply increase or decrease.
And of course, like you keep stressing, there is the one huge, painfully annoying variable to be tossed into the mix, whether PvE or PvP -- the player's skill. As you mentioned, plenty of bad players will QQ when they lose. But, so will the good ones -- especially if they are losing to someone who obviously doesn't know what they're doing.
Final note (and sorry to be jumping around):
You are so terrible at raiding that you can't do that so you resort to pvp.
Another horrible assumption. Many people PvP because of the competition. Just as people have put hours into deathmatches, from Quake to Halo, many people simply relish being able to compete against a live opponent.
Many PvPers would argue that a PvE raid isn't a challenge at all -- you know exactly what the boss is going to do, and you know exactly how to combat it. It comes down to plain and simple numbers -- if you can kill the boss before your healers run out of mana, you win. However, PvP is always different, as you never know what the other player will throw at you. Many would say it is more of a challenge, because you need to use all of your tools to combat someone that may as well be a random number generator -- and more importantly, someone who REALLY wants you to lose so they can win. :)
NOW TO SUM UP
-- I'm not trying to just argue. I really just wanted to play devil's advocate, and make you see the other side. You're making some horrible assumptions and trying to lump a wide variety of people together, so that you can blame them for everything bad happening, and that's entirely unfair.
Post by
16310
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
Though I assure you, zoomie, I read your entire wall of text, this is what stuck out most to me:
I hate pvpers, they are the dumbest players in the game.
Actually the bit that stuck out to me was:
Just accept the fact that your terrible players and stop playing.
Just accept the fact that
you're
a terrible typist and stop typing.
In PvE, you can narrow it down to numbers -- who does the most DPS. But in PvP (and of course, to an extent, PvE), you have a lot of things that just can't be shown in numbers -- a Paladin's HoF, a Rogue's Cloak of Shadow, a Mage's Frost Nova... the list goes on and on. These things aren't easily balanced.
Wrong; Blizzard have balanced it, and is continuously doing so. And when you play a lot of PvP, you will notice that certain things ALWAYS trigger certain reactions.
For instance, if you snare or root a druid, he will typically shift out of it.
If you stun a retribution paladin, he will use HoF to get out of it.
If you fear a warrior he will use berserker rage to get out of it.
The list goes on and on. These counter moves are there by design, and learning them are just like learning a boss encounter.
Yes, but only so far. It's a lot harder to anticipate what a person's usage of their counters will be. For example, when do you use your trinkets against a Rogue? Do you use Hand of Freedom or the Human racial to get out of something? Should you use Hand of Freedom if you know they can stun you as well?
If Blizzard changes an ability slightly (eg, halving the stun time on Hammer of Justice), it's not as easy to model the effects. Some people will save their trinket for longer effects. Some people will still break out and keep swinging. It's much, much easier to model PvE.
Post by
443146
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228908
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65116
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