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Self Entitlement Syndrome
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Post by
361800
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
361800
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
StumpJumper
<snip>
THERE IS NO PROFESSION THAT CAN GET ITS OWN MATS!<snip>
Not to put a bee in your bonnet, but Tailoring is the only "Trade" non gathering profession where the matts are abundent, and easy to come by.
to a Very small extent, you can find ores and gems in random drops and chests, but not enough to really make a difference.
same with leather.
However, as a tailor, you do Not need a gathering skill to level it to 450.
just an fyi.
Post by
361800
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
JemiS
This drama is exactly why I no longer DE for groups.
I greed on everything, we all roll, and I DE what I got after I leave the instance.
I'm lucky if I get 5g as a tip for blowing my hearth/flying to another city to do a rare enchant for someone.
I certainly don't expect all the drops for myself to DE, but I will no longer DE for others- well over 80% of them are selfish, greedy, and entitled- and the others ask nicely.
I'll throw good twink enchants on random newbies, offer to enchant +def things for free to a struggling tank- but I will not have my skill 'taken for granted' as a service I am OWED to others in the group.
Post by
Spinkert
<snip>
THERE IS NO PROFESSION THAT CAN GET ITS OWN MATS!<snip>
Not to put a bee in your bonnet, but Tailoring is the only "Trade" non gathering profession where the matts are abundent, and easy to come by.
just an fyi.
Until the tailor needs mats such as dust, gems, ores, eternals, etc. to level. Many of those high-end mats are not cheap.
A friend disenchants everything I craft so that I can get the infinite dust back to continue leveling tailoring. It costs 80g (on a good day) for a stack of 20 infinite dust on my server and I need a lot of it. I had to buy a couple of stacks to start the process and now it's being recycled into more gear. I also get mats for my own enchants as an extra bonus.
I could sell frostweave bags for 73g, but it takes 12 infinite dust to make 6 imbued frostweave for one bag. Right now I'm more focused on levelling tailoring rather than making a profit from it. If I make bags, I'm losing mats I need to level. So the imbued frostweave is used for armor that is then disenchanted.
Post by
342286
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
PinktheDK
The point about the enchanting mats is still the same though. It's an old argument, which boggles me that people still argue over.
The whole group earned the drop, why should one person be entitled to get all the benefit of that?
If you don't want to disenchant for your group then don't, just greed roll with the rest and if you win, it's yours to do what you want with.
Because only one person in the group actually bothered to take the time to level their profession, spending their gold and other resources in the process. Sure, it's great if an enchanter will DE and raid-roll shards, more power to them. This also applies to Alchemy masteries. When you hire an alchemist to say make 10 Flasks of Endless Rage, you give him the mats to make just that: 10 Flasks of Endless Rage. Any extras are a benefit to
levelling his profession the way he did
.
Note that this is different from getting a JC to prospect Ore for you, or a Scribe to mill herbs for you. When you get someone to do this for you, you give them a stack of mats,
not knowing what you're going to get
. There's no guarantee you'll even get anything worthwhile out of your stack of Saronite Ore or Lichbloom, so it's entirely reasonable to expect you get everything from that stack of mats.
Long story short, I'm still going to charge extra from my Elixir procs, and if the person doesn't want to pay, then that's too bad. If you aren't sure about stuff like that, talk to the crafter first, and work out something.
Good luck finding customers. "Charging" a fee is rather unpopular. Asking for tips and being a nice bloke would earn you more in the end anyways. And if someone asks for an elixir spec alch, you can expect them to tip more for the shot at procs. THAT is the reward for speccing into that branch of alchemy, not the extra ten flasks of endless rage you just ninjad because they wouldn't pay your ransom demands.
Post by
ZoraLink
The point about the enchanting mats is still the same though. It's an old argument, which boggles me that people still argue over.
The whole group earned the drop, why should one person be entitled to get all the benefit of that?
If you don't want to disenchant for your group then don't, just greed roll with the rest and if you win, it's yours to do what you want with.
Because only one person in the group actually bothered to take the time to level their profession, spending their gold and other resources in the process. Sure, it's great if an enchanter will DE and raid-roll shards, more power to them. This also applies to Alchemy masteries. When you hire an alchemist to say make 10 Flasks of Endless Rage, you give him the mats to make just that: 10 Flasks of Endless Rage. Any extras are a benefit to
levelling his profession the way he did
.
Note that this is different from getting a JC to prospect Ore for you, or a Scribe to mill herbs for you. When you get someone to do this for you, you give them a stack of mats,
not knowing what you're going to get
. There's no guarantee you'll even get anything worthwhile out of your stack of Saronite Ore or Lichbloom, so it's entirely reasonable to expect you get everything from that stack of mats.
Long story short, I'm still going to charge extra from my Elixir procs, and if the person doesn't want to pay, then that's too bad. If you aren't sure about stuff like that, talk to the crafter first, and work out something.
Good luck finding customers. "Charging" a fee is rather unpopular. Asking for tips and being a nice bloke would earn you more in the end anyways. And if someone asks for an elixir spec alch, you can expect them to tip more for the shot at procs. THAT is the reward for speccing into that branch of alchemy, not the extra ten flasks of endless rage you just ninjad because they wouldn't pay your ransom demands.
Except a lot of times I don't get tipped, or get tipped maybe a gold. After spending the past hour while they ran back and forth to the AH getting mats, or asking where to buy vials, or whatever random stuff they do. No thanks.
Post by
321203
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gnub
but is it really your mats? what entitles you to roll need for d/e. your logic is fail. refuse to d/e for the group, roll greed like everyone else who earned a chance to roll greed by being there. if you win, d/e it for yourself. let the group vendor their greeds, it is what greed means after all...
I always saw enchanters Greed (while others passed) on stuff to disenchant it, to be a service to the group. Granted, it's a very common one, and thus some people seems to take it for granted that enchanters SHOULD do it. However, I don't recall meeting an enchanter who didn't want to do it.
By requiring the blues, and then keeping the mats, is on the other hand greedy. He has as much "right" as everyone else to the item, but can probably get the most use of it - but then again everyone can sell ores and herbs too. We all need money, don't we
But, the difference here is - ores and herbs wouldn't have been there in the first place, if the miner/herbalist wasn't present.
Post by
PinktheDK
Free Market... if someone is doing something that doesn't seem fair go to another player who will be fair. I think creating some crazy form of "status quo" isn't good for professions.
I think of enchanters specifically. They run instances for shards sometimes... and more often than not they are expected to disenchant the items and split the shards... providing a service that would otherwise not be available if there wasn't an enchanter in the group.WITHOUT compensation...
Now if the same enchanter simply said, I'm not D/Eing, I'll roll like everyone else and D/E for myself... The group might be VERY unhappy with him... they might think he's being greedy or whatnot... might even boot him.
This has lead to many enchanters NOT saying that they enchant or anything... this way they simply roll, get the loot, and DE it when they leave.
The situation is very gray... I am an enchanter, and while I need a group to make shards, shards would not be available unless I were in the group. So the question remains, How do I acquire shards for myself without excluding group members? (Because lets face it, they were a part of the process.) So if I were not there, people would simply be rolling for the G value of the item. But an enchanter increases the value of the "useless" item but turning it into a kind of universal currency.
EDIT: Mandatory tips aren't tips... it's called taxation... or a service fee.. stop calling them tips when you EXPECT them...
Deep down, I feel for enchanters... it isn't easy... but some have a knack for it. Bravo!
Enchanters get a share of the added value the same as everyone else - a 20% chance at some crappy heroic blue, or a 20% chance at a dream shard. The enchanter can advertise that they will DE for everyone or not, either way they will on average get the same exact amount of materials. However, if they shard it they make everyone happier. The only downside is having to push the DE button and select the item, and then rolling at the end - maybe thirty seconds of time in all.
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