This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
News Articles
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
MyTie
I've never understood the point...
Your words.
I was merely suggesting you might get results from imagining the lives of others. You're welcome to reject that suggestion of course.
Just because I don't understand it doesn't mean I don't try to understand it. I don't reject your suggestion that I try to understand things from other people's points of view. I mean to say your suggestion is snide and unnecessary. The entire point of my speculation of "what would I do or not do in that situation", in the fact that I wouldn't parade my sexuality, is doing exactly what you are suggesting I do. I am speculating on what would I do in that situation.
It is rough, having a characteristic that is generally frowned upon by a large section of society. I understand that. I empathize with that. What I don't get is the desire to parade against it. The pattern of sexual attraction I have is not something that I want to wear like a badge, regardless of what everyone thinks about it Everyone on earth could think that my wife and I are wrong for being heterosexual, and my conclusion wouldn't be to march down the streets to show how proud I am that I want to have sex with her. That's just not the method I use to gain acceptance. I don't even understand how that serves to pave the road to acceptance. Not understanding the methods used by others doesn't mean I don't try to see the world from their viewpoint at all.
Here is a suggestion for you. Read this, as if someone said it to you:Try imagining yourself in other peoples' shoes once in a while.Now how would you receive it? Is my dismissal of your suggestion surprising?
Post by
asakawa
It is rough, having a characteristic that is generally frowned upon by a large section of society. I understand that. I empathize with that. What I don't get is the desire to parade against it. The pattern of sexual attraction I have is not something that I want to wear like a badge, regardless of what everyone thinks about it Everyone on earth could think that my wife and I are wrong for being heterosexual, and my conclusion wouldn't be to march down the streets to show how proud I am that I want to have sex with her. That's just not the method I use to gain acceptance. I don't even understand how that serves to pave the road to acceptance.
I think it's because you're so focussed on the sex. It's love, partnership and who people are on a far deeper level that the sexual one. I think it's subtly undermining to reduce it to that level to be honest.
Post by
MyTie
I think it's because you're so focussed on the sex. It's love, partnership and who people are on a far deeper level that the sexual one. I think it's subtly undermining to reduce it to that level to be honest.
I think very highly of sex. I think it is a wonderful thing. "Reducing" this to sex isn't a way of undermining it at all. If I thought lowly of sex, maybe, but I don't. The sexual orientation of the individuals parading is what they are putting on display when they parade. Further, even if it had nothing to do with their sexuality, and only to do with who they love, I still see no point in a parade. My love for my wife has never been a cause for me to march in the streets, and still wouldn't be regardless of what other people thought of it. Finally, I reject this is about love and partnership, since there are single people who participate in these parades based on their sexual orientation. I think it is for some people, but it isn't a default assumption for the participants. A parade about sexual orientation cannot be "reduced" down to a parade about sexual orientation, because there is no reduction necessary.
Post by
asakawa
I've attended them and I'm hetero.
Post by
MyTie
I've attended them and I'm hetero.
Ok. Then you tell me. What is the desire here? What wants to be accomplished?
Post by
asakawa
An oppressed group gathering, marching and making public speeches to spread awareness of an issue. This isn't a gay thing nor is it a new thing. I don't see why it would be an alien concept when it happens every day.(##RESPBREAK##)16##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##
Post by
Lombax
Probably a lot of cool people there, if meeting new people is your thing.
Post by
MyTie
Awareness? Awareness of what? What person, living under a rock, is unaware of the topic?
Isn't a gay thing? Gay pride parade isn't a gay thing?
Who said it was alien? I'm not saying it is alien, I'm just trying to grasp the goal here.
Edit: Lombax makes an insightful contribution. Yes, I could see it being a gathering for people to meet other people with like interests.
Post by
Lombax
Lombax makes an insightful contribution.
Possibly the first one on this site. Probably because I'm in a good mood.
Post by
asakawa
An oppressed group gathering, marching and making public speeches to spread awareness of an issue.
This
(concept I just described) isn't a gay thing nor is it a new thing. (As such) I don't see why it would be an alien concept when it happens every day.(##RESPBREAK##)16##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##
Post by
MyTie
An oppressed group gathering, marching and making public speeches to spread awareness of an issue.
This
(concept I just described) isn't a gay thing nor is it a new thing. (As such) I don't see why it would be an alien concept when it happens every day.
Remember back there, a page ago, where I was like "Gay pride parades? What kind of new concept is this?"
Post by
asakawa
Nope, didn't read it. You seemed confused about what I meant so I attempted to achieve greater clarity.
If you understand the point then why have you "never understood the point..." when it's to do with sexuality.
I guess (without wanting to put words in your mouth) that you see it as
different
and this is the point I was trying to make earlier.
You
may see it as a very different thing but do you think it's different to the people to whom it pertains? Do the specific things for which they are being oppressed and your moral judgement of those things make it a less valid cause?
Post by
Magician22773
I see gay pride parades the same way that I see Black Entertainment Television.
If I organized a parade and called it a "Straight Pride" march, with the sole purpose of bringing more attention to heterosexual relationships....I would get the bigot badge slapped on me (again) in less than 5 seconds.
If someone started a TV network called White Entertainment Network, they would be racists.
Gay rights groups are called "activist organizations".
A heterosexual rights group would be called a bunch of homophobes.
Post by
Lombax
I see gay pride parades the same way that I see Black Entertainment Television.
If I organized a parade and called it a "Straight Pride" march, with the sole purpose of bringing more attention to heterosexual relationships....I would get the bigot badge slapped on me (again) in less than 5 seconds.
If someone started a TV network called White Entertainment Network, they would be racists.
Gay rights groups are called "activist organizations".
A heterosexual rights group would be called a bunch of homophobes.
You know why? Because white people and heterosexuals has not been supressed. The fact that gay and black people were not accepted by society for a long time makes it a bit of a different issue.
Post by
asakawa
What can I tell you Magician, the world looks like a whole different place when you're in the minority. It simply doesn't work to replace minority with majority in a comparison and hope it makes a point.
The TV thing is different also because there already is "white entertainment television", it's called "television". If a company chooses to cater and advertise to a niche in the market then they hope to get a greater market share of that subsection. Straight, white, 18-35 male isn't a niche, they're the mainstream market.
If you think that straight people need more awareness then do it. I support your right to do so. I doubt there's really much of a statement to be made there though other than "why do LGBTs get to have all the fun?".
You see, majorities raising awareness traditionally means bigotry (KKK rally etc. - it's usually more about negative awareness of minorities) but it's the bigotry itself that would get it labelled as such not simply the subject. If you've got something important to say that is in no way bigoted then why would you even worry about it?
Gay Pride isn't about straight people. The question is would Straight Pride be equally disinterested in gay people?
Following this idea, as a straight man I feel very comfortable and welcome at a Gay Pride event. Do you expect a gay person to be as comfortable at a fictitious Straight Pride event?(##RESPBREAK##)16##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##
Post by
Magician22773
I never said my "Straight Pride" parade would be exclusive to gays. It just would be a march of like-minded heterosexuals proclaiming their sexuality.
While a gay pride event may very well be welcoming to heterosexuals, I doubt they would be very interested in hearing people proclaiming their "straightness".
You see, majorities raising awareness traditionally means bigotry (KKK rally etc. - it's usually more about negative awareness of minorities)
You know the modern KKK is actually much more about "White Pride" than "Black Hate", especially compared to what it used to be. Since blacks are free to express pride in their race, why are whites not allowed the same?
If I wanted to celebrate "White History Month", would that be OK?
How about a United Caucasian College Fund? After all, blacks can recieve all the same scholarships, student loans, and grants as a white can, but I dont think the United Negro College Fund is avaliable to whites.
What about applying Affirmative Action standards to whites in areas that are majority black, such as most major inner cities? Should businesses in downtown Detroit be required by law to hire at least a percentage of whites, even if a more qualified black applicant is seeking the same job?
Or maybe I could start a New White Panther Party and have members dressed in military style uniforms stand outside of polling places on election day with nightsticks to make sure that white voters are treated properly.
The honest truth is, if ANY of the above were ever attempted they would be instantly labeled as racist organizations and shunned or shut down, however they all exist in America today for blacks.
What can I tell you Magician, the world looks like a whole different place when you're in the minority. It simply doesn't work to replace minority with majority in a comparison and hope it makes a point.
The world only looks that way if you want it to, especially in America. Opportunity here is about as equal as you can get. You will always have extremists on every side, so I am not saying that discrimiation does not exist, rather that it exists just about equally. Most discrimination comes when people want to "express" their differences, rather than just blending in. A black man dressed in slacks and a polo shirt is not going to draw any more attention to himself than a white man in the same outfit. But a black man with his belt down around his knees wearing a sideways ball cap and a basketball jersey is. And a gay man parading down the street in assless leather chaps with a whip is not exactly doing much good for the gay community....IMHO
Post by
Patty
You know why? Because white people and heterosexuals have not been suppressed. The fact that gay and black people were not accepted by society for a long time makes it a bit of a different issue.
I'll also add that in many corners of society, gays are
still
unaccepted, and to a lesser extent the same is true for racial minorities. If you're going to compare Pride events to anything, compare them to feminist movements.
Post by
168916
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Orranis
A heterosexual rights group would be called a bunch of homophobes.
Or maybe they'd just be laughed at because heterosexual's aren't missing out on any rights. I'm sorry that there's a double standard on your ability to have a 'rights' group caused by your sexuality having all those rights?
Post by
Patty
A heterosexual rights group would be called a bunch of homophobes.
Or maybe they'd just be laughed at because heterosexual's aren't missing out on any rights. I'm sorry that there's a double standard on your ability to have a 'rights' group caused by your sexuality having all those rights?
^ It kind of defies the purpose of fighting for equal rights when you already have those equal rights.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.