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Post by
168916
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Because I have to:
John Constantine.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
From what I've seen in the movie (never read the comic books) very little of the Constantine universe actually coincides with actual doctrine, and Constantine as a character isn't someone who believes anything. He's someone who knows- no faith requires- and he neither loves nor respects God. He is trying to settle some score to save his own hide from judgement for a sin, but isn't really sorry for doing it. Not what I would call a "Christian."
There are a lot of superheroes who, as you see their back story, do have various religious affiliations. I don't remember too many specifics, but I do recall Nightcrawler, from the X-men, was pretty religious (Catholic I think), and even in the movie they made an acknowledgement of it with the tattoos. I think most superheroes, once they have been around a while, go into aspects of their family, love lives, jobs and often religions (especially after something tragic happens). I can probably name the love interests for most major comic book characters that I have any knowledge of, be they other super heroes or regular people.
Post by
Adamsm
but I do recall Nightcrawler, from the X-men, was pretty religious (Catholic I think), As he was ordained as a Minister, yes very much so.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
Ah- here we go.
Post by
MyTie
Hrm, thought not.Don't troll me dude. If I don't want to talk about something, what's the problem with respecting that? Do you really want a response that much. You are expecting, correctly, that I haven't actually read the books. So, here you go:I'm all for character development, but let's not be so naive to pretend we don't see proselytizing, from either side, or pretend we don't despise it.
Which book do you think has been proselytizing?
Ones that take political sides in the hopes of influences their readers. Any of them that do that. We were speaking about the one that brings up homosexuality. Do I need to actually read these books in order to express a dislike for when people bring politics into entertainment? I've seen enough of that (example Dumbledore is gay) to know that I don't like it. I haven't read all the harry potter books, nor seen all the movies either for that matter, but I know, without having read them all that they didn't need that amendment after the fact.
Entertainment that preaches to me, about environmentalism, or racism, or homosexuality, or any of that crap, instead of just letting me enjoy the entertainment, bothers me, as it does others.
Do you feel I need to see every instance of that in every form of entertainment to know that I don't like it? It's a ridiculous assertion. That's why I blew off your question in the first place. It's irrelevant. Your question, was irrelevant. That's why I didn't answer. I was trying to be polite by directing the conversation somewhere else. Next time, just go along with it politely in return... instead of this one liner garbage:
Hrm, thought not.
Post by
Adamsm
I've seen enough of that (example Dumbledore is gay) to know that I don't like it. I haven't read all the harry potter books, nor seen all the movies either for that matter, but I know, without having read them all that they didn't need that amendment after the fact.Since you haven't read the books; the most she alludes to Dumbledore being gay is that he had feelings for his greatest rival in the past, and the fact that said rival hurt his sister was the main reason for his heart break....other then that, none of the other media even mentions it, and Rowling told us after the fact; I certainly never picked it up on my first read through, but with that information...the book doesn't change, Dumbledore's greatest mistake doesn't lose any impact, and the most that happens is you feel a little heart broken for him, knowing he was forced to drive off his love.
Post by
MyTie
after the factafter the fact
Like I said.
Post by
204878
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
So if someone writes a character in a book who happens to be gay, is it always pushing a political agenda? I mean, can anyone ever just envision a story where a character is gay, and leave it at that?
I don't disagree that the "coming out" of an existing superhero, publicized in advance, is totally a political move. But I think there are a lot of stories where a character is gay because they're gay, and not to make a statement, anymore than a character who is religious needs to be there to promote some religious agenda, or someone who is a criminal is there to show that we need some kind of prison reform. A lot of authors do use characters like this, but do you feel that ANY inclusion of a gay character in fiction is to push some agenda?
Post by
MyTie
It's not exactly relevant to a children's book, but it doesn't mean that she was lying when she said that's how she pictured the character in her head. Do you not think it's possible to have a gay character for non-political reasons? Because that's how you're sounding.
Sure, it is possible. That's not the point, I suppose. I just don't like books that preach to me, and often characters that are gay are done for political reasons. Homosexuality aside, I don't like being told what to think. It's like environmentalism in Avatar. Or any other hot button issues that stick out like sore thumbs in entertainment, like cheap bumper stickers. There are somethings that just don't seem to belong. Who dumbledore wants to have sex with doesn't have anything to do with Harry Potter, at least I hope not. There are some instances were hot button issues are woven into the plot and an intricate part of the plot, and that's fine. But, a lot of time it's more out of place. Picture going to a nice resteraunt, and as you are ordering your food, your waiter interrupts you and explains he prefers to have sex with men, and explains to you that you should be careful to be tolerant of gay people. That's how I feel entertainment, very often, goes about interrupting itself, and bending over backward to tell me what to think.
That's not to say people can't be gay in books. That's not what I mean at all. But superheros? What does being gay have to do with superpowers? I don't get that.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
What does Superman's relationship with Lois Lane have to do with his story? Why do we care if Peter Parker is in love with Mary Jane, but she loves his best friend? Why is Alicia such an important part of The Thing's peace of mind? Why do we care that the Submariner wants to steal the Invisible Woman away from Mr. Fantastic?
What does that have to do with being a superhero? Unless you want to see them as a person too, and THEN all that stuff makes sense.
For every other super-hero, ever, their love lives have been a pretty prevalent part of their story. To suddenly wonder what any of that has to do with a superhero, now that he's gay, seems like more of a departure from the writing style than having a gay superhero who we learn the same amount about as we do every other hero.
Post by
Adamsm
What does being gay have to do with superpowers?That shocker....Superheroes are people too?
Off the top of my head: Karolina in the Runaways(Teenage Alien), Xavin the Skrull(gender bends to be with his/her wife Karolina), Rictor(who's Bi), Shatterstar(who does anything that moves but is also an alien/other dimensional being), Wiccan and Hulkling of Young Avengers(been a couple for a long while; Wiccan is the son of the Scarlet Witch and Vision, Hulkling is half-Kree half-Skrull and both are teens), Northstar who has been mentioned, Moondragon and ex-female Captain Marvel, already mentioned Apollo and Midnighter; the list goes on and on, and their being gay is merely a small part of their character: They still kick ass, they still save the world, and they still have the required break downs that all Super Heroes have.
Just like gays exist in the real world, the idea that some supers are gay shouldn't be surprising and it's certainly not being preachy...unless they are written as a stereotypical one dimensional character, and those types haven't existed for a long while now.
Post by
MyTie
Hmmm... ok... I think I see the problem here. It's me. I don't care about superman and louis lane, or peter parker and mary jane, or any of those relationships. I just want to know who can fly and what super powers they have. So, I guess that's why homosexuality sticks out to me, because the relationships all together are something I generally ignore.
Edit: I still don't like preachy entertainment, and there is a lot of it.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
AH- ok. I like drama. Like a lot. I always enjoyed the soap-opera aspects of comic books and action movies as much as the actual action.
Post by
Adamsm
Edit: I still don't like preachy entertainment, and there is a lot of it.
I can agree with you on that point.
Edit: Yeah, I like character development in addition to the grand action scenes of comics/books/movies; that's why I dislike 'stuff blowing up for 2 hour movies'...or really heavy handed stuff like Spider-man 3 /sigh Ruined what could have been a good movie to make Toby look 'rebellious' /roll eyes; at least the Sand Man sub story was semi-good, even if the 'real' version of Mako is a thug who get's off on beating the ever loving snot out of people.
Post by
MyTie
My son got a Tom and Jerry DVD collection for chirstmas, and at the beginning of it, Whoppie Goldberg gives a lecture about how hurtful the stereotypical portrayal of the cat's owner is, and how she thinks the character should be left in to remind everyone of how awful it is that people used to do that. My 3 year old son doesn't want to hear that crap. The character does have some stereotypical elements to her (the only one that I noticed is she talkes in the typical "black voice", but you only ever see her knees down), but it's nothing horrible, and racist or not, my 3 year old just wants to watch cartoons. I wish he hadn't lost the remote to his DVD player so I could skip over her. This cultural sensitivity is the kind of crap that needs to be knocked off.
Post by
gamerunknown
What do you think of
this guy
MyTie?
Post by
MyTie
What do you think of
this guy
MyTie?
Yucky.
Post by
Magician22773
What do you think of (link removed)this guy MyTie?
Hey...all forum BS aside...
Something on this page just caused my PC to go nuts. The page opened about 4 tabs, then anti-virus alarms went crazy. Had to close out via Task Manager.
I promise, I am not trying to derail anything....just not sure what, but something on that page may be malicious.....and not just the idiot "preacher".
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