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Warlock's PvP Disadavantages with Flaming, and QQ to follow
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Post by
asakawa
sure, i'm not bowled over by the "my friend rawks!" response either.
my point is that there are averages and stats and they're interesting, they can give us information that is useful but do they really apply here?
i hate pvp.
people kill me all the time and i don't feel like there's anything i can do about it.
(this is true but could be taken as a hypothetical also).
i could react in one of two ways.
i could say, i feel helpless because pvp is hard, i'm terrible at it and my opponents are better.
or i could say, i feel helpless because blizz ruined my class.
i think it takes an awful lot of experience of the game and the class for the second response to actually be the rational one.
a discussion of lock pvp strengths and weaknesses is, i'm sure, very valuable. as i say, it was the conclusion that i found disheartening.
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158563
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278544
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Post by
asakawa
Really, you just need to keep playing until you get better overall
this is kinda what i'm saying. pvp is about peaks and troughs. balance is something you only feel when you're actually overpowered. i'm not arguing that locks are great in pvp, there's some clear problems, but the balance will shift at some point and we'll have an advantage for a while until it's nerfed.
if people can't find enjoyment in the game during the tough times then they're probably in it for the wrong reasons. that's what i'm saying. and that's why the averages thing doesn't apply. the averages may show that lock pvp is currently at a low point (i wouldn't argue against that idea at all) but it's the reaction to that perceived disadvantage that i find... disheartening.
Post by
WoWTheoryCraft
Most of the "masses" will just migrate to whatever class is FotM and seen as OP.
You can't get a true picture of the relative strength of any class by looking at the numbers playing it.
Look at the average rating of, say, the top 20 or 50 of each class, that will give you a much better indication of the potential of the classes.
But the majority of players just don't have the skill or understanding to live up to that potential.
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278544
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Post by
Infleto
tl,dr
In the next patch, we'll be a lot hardier in arenas since our minions won't be 2 shot. Also, affliction pvp is getting a veritable buff with the resilience changes and overall damage reduction of all classes.
Really, you just need to keep playing until you get better overall. I definitely need to work on my play style in arena, but I can see hope in getting above 2k...eventually, by merit of skill and practice.
No, even on the PTR, We just don't live long enough to play well.
And if it takes more that a 1/2 of a year to play well then i can't. I have a job and a life out side of wow. Why put up with a year of learning to play a underpowered class. when you can play a more viable class. I am going with a hunter. They are not overpowered and can hold there own in pvp.
if people can't find enjoyment in the game during the tough times then they're probably in it for the wrong reasons. That’s what I’m saying. And that's why the averages thing doesn't apply. the averages may show that lock PvP is currently at a low point (i wouldn't argue against that idea at all) but it's the reaction to that perceived disadvantage that i find... disheartening.
Why do you play wow? I play to keep myself form going crazy when it have nothing else to do. Sitting at my computer and watching a rez timer will not help. I now know I can get the same enjoyment out of a functioning class that I can a warlock. Is that so Disheartening? No, it is Disheartening that a player must reroll in order to play a class that is competitive.
Very true; there are a couple warlocks rated in the top 10 of teams in 2's, 3's and 5's. AJ hasn't updated as of yet, but there are 2 warlocks in the top 10 2's, 4 in 3's, and 7 in 5's. Warlocks do have what it takes to get to the top, but granted, there's a much higher skill requirement as opposed to playing a dk, etc.
Hunters, rouges, mages, and shaman are not OP in pvp but all do can well in a 1v1. A lock must depend on other to make up for what the class lacks more that others.
I have screen shots for every BG that I took first place on the charts. Every time I toped the charts I had my very own healer, a tree form my guild. The 2 of use died very few times.
To the locks in the "top rated" teams, It take a class with good cc and still another one with good heals to make our class competitive.
I am not saying locks should be able to take on 2 or 3 people and come out on top. Just why can other classes play well in a 1v1 (unless they are facing the current OP class) and a lock is not viable until we have some one to help?
This means your effectiveness in PvP depends on some one else’s skills not just your own. Yes, this is true for every class but is far more prevalent in a lock.
And NO, I am not rerolling a OP DK or a Pally. Even though they are the classes of the month. I just want a class that does not take 2 other people to keep me alive so I can do something other that die.
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204005
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Post by
megamags
I run with a holy Pally in BG's
I top Damage and he tops healing :D
Win-Win
moral of the story, you don't hav eto be a great warlock, you just need a great healer. :)
Post by
asakawa
aaah, ok.
now i understand your problem and the answer is easy.
blizzard doesn't balance around 1v1
. they're also moving away from trying to balance around 2v2.
if you want to duel then great but that's not "pvp" it's just dueling. blizzard wants pvp to be a group exercise, like raiding. if you want to be involved in real pvp then find a good pvp guild or get some friends together and make a solid 3v3 team.
that's
pvp and that is where you will find skill wins fights.
i can't believe we had this whole thread about how warlocks are underpowered in PvP and it turns out you were talking about 1v1! what serious PvPers give a damn about 1v1?
Post by
Infleto
aaah, ok.
now i understand your problem and the answer is easy.
blizzard doesn't balance around 1v1
. they're also moving away from trying to balance around 2v2.
if you want to duel then great but that's not "pvp" it's just dueling. blizzard wants pvp to be a group exercise, like raiding. if you want to be involved in real pvp then find a good pvp guild or get some friends together and make a solid 3v3 team.
that's
pvp and that is where you will find skill wins fights.
i can't believe we had this whole thread about how warlocks are underpowered in PvP and it turns out you were talking about 1v1! what serious PvPers give a damn about 1v1?
Warlocks have many disadvantages in PvP. Poor cc, ineffective HP and, low kiting ability are the main causes for meager performance in the arena and 1 vs. 1 situations.
I was talking about both. . .
Even in a big group fight in a BG, you will get singled out by that one DK or pally. If your team mates are not looking out for their squishy team mate, you are still in a 1v1. Is it your falt that your team mate don’t help you? No. Will you still die? Yes.
In a big group as a lock you survivability is not decided by your skill. Most classes can live when put in this situation do to better 1v1 abilities or ways to get out of the fight.
Most group pvp will turn in to 1v1, I can not tell you how many time I have been in a 3v3 that came down to a 1v1.
In WSG if you rez wile your team is making a mass rush for the flag, you will find your self way form your team in a 1v1 fast.
In AV if you come in to the game late it is a 1v1 or 1v2 the hole time as you worked to get the other teams base. Most of the time when trying to take a random tower there only one person on D (1v1).
In AB many times you will rez at Farm/STB to find you are the only one there with some one trying to slip behind the lines to take the Farm/SB. again 1v1.
Every class (but lock) has some way of either winning do to class set up, or escaping .e Unless it is a Holy pally coming to you, you are at a disadvantage. Warlocks can't escape. We have no real escape ability.
It is not like every thing is 1v1. Mostly you will lose when you are in one and have to wait wile being rezed. Other classes don't have to do.
Locks are not the only class like this. Shadow priest and warriors have poor chances too escape a 1v1 that they would lose in. Unlike arcane mages with blink + invisibility, a rogue with blind + vanish or any healing class who can heal wile kiting his way back to help.
This is not a " Why can't I pvp on a lock" thread. I do well on my lock. I just have to work much harder to well. I now know if I rolled a nother class (hunter) I can do the samething I am doing now and with as many death.
this is just a "Why locks are disadvantage and you will do better on somthe else" thread.
Post by
116052
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Post by
asakawa
infleto, your last post was just becoming a "grass is greener on the other side" list.
if you're in a 1v1 situation in BGs or 3v3 then you (or your team-mates) are doing it wrong.
work as a team. win as a team. (to misquote lost: "play together, die alone" ^_^)
the other classes aren't all better at dealing with things than us. some are but some are worse. that kind of point is classic QQ.
Post by
Infleto
No, they are not all better but many stand a better chance to live through a 1v1 in a BG.
I have all ready Posted as to why locks are bad in pvp. A list of who is better is the only thing left to talk about.
on my BF's hunter, i was able to kite and burst down my attackers
And You Get Too kill Rouges! greener? I would say so.
Post by
341572
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Post by
142032
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Post by
Infleto
Hrm...
A) Warlocks are not meant to be stand-alone juggernauts.
We are a ranged dps/utility class. We wear cloth armor, we shouldn't be able to withstand a direct onslaught from melee.
B) We SHOULD be able to kite melee and be able to escape them should they get to close.
We have numerous abilities to do so. Using them at the proper time is the key to success. As both affliction and destruction you have a number of utilities to get melee the eff off of you
"A)" who side that they where?
"B)"Desto must PvP with melee in your face.
All of are kiting ability can and will be counter by any melee class.
Destro must use its peel abilitys to stop incoming burst as you find time to cast not to kite.
Aff can't deal with melee at all without help. fear is too weak and DC do not last long enough.
If you are Aff go find some healers to kill.
I will have fun on my hunter who is not OPed thank you! I like warlock lore. along with the ideal of thier play style but, I will not miss the spending hafe a WSG mach chatting it up with the rez healer. (cows make for bad conversation any ways)
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