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Pures vs Hybrids
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Post by
79224
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Post by
160129
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Post by
Ethix
Pure dps classes (mages, hunters, locks, and rogues) should do more damage simply because they cannot fill those other roles of tanking or healing. Being able to switch between the two is a nice change of pace that may make it so you do not burn out playing one class. Also, why should a raid leader bring X class, if Y class can do the same dps but switch to heal or tank when needed by the raid? That is Blizzard's line of thinking.
Now for your examples, there are no pure tanking or healing classes. There are however, pure dps classes, so it would make sense that tanking and healing classes should perform about the same. Generally though, druids and priests have the most healing output as of now.
Post by
342791
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Post by
HoleofArt
Basically, if we were to go by your line of thinking, why the hell should warlocks, mages, hunters and rogues EVER be invited to a group, when you can have some hybrid doing everything they do, only better, while still being able to tank or heal on the fly?
Its like saying all hybrids should only heal or tank. Since pures are required to ONLY dps, you'd think that there should be some insentive to play a pure, rather than have hybrids, hence Blizzard's reasoning for the 5% damage increase.
Post by
Squishalot
Oh gawd, not another one of these threads.
Consider the example of the raid/restaurant. You've got chefs, you've got waiters, and you've got cleaners.
A Warlock, a Paladin and a Warrior come along. The Warlock's a Chef, he doesn't have any other skills, so he applies for the Chef's position.
The Paladin had the opportunity to go to the Chef classes, he could have done Ettiquette, and he could have done Cleaning. Just say he chose to go to Chef classes, and so he also applies for the Chef's position.
The Warrior, likewise, could have done Cleaning, but he's a trained Chef, just like the others, so he applies for the Chef's position.
The concept of switching classes, or bring a Paladin who can both Cook and Clean, only came in with patch 3.1, so it's unlikely to suggest that Blizzard balanced the game originally with the intention that hybrid classes could respec for encounters.
But on the face of it, it would seem unfair that a Hybrid class should be penalised just because he made a choice to pursue a DPS spec, relative to other DPS classes. Otherwise, Paladins and Druids would never be taken anywhere at all, because you could get 'better' healers in Priests and Shammies, and 'better' tanks in Warriors and DKs.
To use the restaurant analogy again, they're all trained to be chefs, so they all deserve a fair place in the kitchen.
Where this breaks down is when you have different types of DPS - ranged, caster, melee, elemental types etc. This would be the equivalent of having different cuisines of food. Because the Mage has three potential DPS specs, it's highly likely that they will be able to tailor a spec to do more DPS than a Ret Pally in any given scenario. But if the Mage were to take a single general spec into a raid, why should he do more damage than a single general Ret pally?
Again, to use the analogy, I don't think it matters if you're a French cuisine master, and the Pally's a pasta master, because you'll still both do a very ordinary stir fry.
Edit: One more comment, because I recall someone in a Pally thread suggested that Paladins who insisted on DPS'ing are 'tards and should be more of a team player and respec when necessary.
My response to that: As soon as you convince a striker in football to respec as goalkeeper, just because he can, because the team is lacking a goalkeeper, then that'll be fair enough. But any striker worth their salt will simply laugh at you and find a new club. Which is why Ret pallies who enjoy the craft will stay as Ret.
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79224
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261871
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345326
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261871
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Post by
Haxzor
YOU FILTHY MUDBLOODS
Post by
Katsudon
Instead of trying to balance the damage issues between Pure DPS and Hybrid DPS classes, which is too difficult to satisfy each side, they should just give each pure DPS class a unique raid buff that would make carrying one of each type worthwhile.
Atm, the hybrid dps specs bring enough useful unique buffs, especially pally, druid and shammy, that give them enough worth to take a slot in a 25 man even if they aren't close to top dps.
Post by
262937
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Post by
Haxzor
Pures rolled their class on purpose - to never have responsibility of healing/tanking a party.
For that reason, all hybrids should be penalized, and pures should be at least 70% higher dps.
LOL... What about the people who chose the "Pure" class just because they wanted to?
Btw 70% is very unreasonable... If that were true, then bringing a Ret/Moonkin/Elemental or any other "Non-Pure" dps would be useless. 70% is like doing 4000 dps compared to 1200...
1200/100=120
120x7=840
1200+840=2040
You were close
Post by
Raleandris
Pures rolled their class on purpose - to never have responsibility of healing/tanking a party.
For that reason, all hybrids should be penalized, and pures should be at least 70% higher dps.
LOL... What about the people who chose the "Pure" class just because they wanted to?
Btw 70% is very unreasonable... If that were true, then bringing a Ret/Moonkin/Elemental or any other "Non-Pure" dps would be useless. 70% is like doing 4000 dps compared to 1200...
1200/100=120
120x7=840
1200+840=2040
You were close
Orly?
1200/100 =
12
12 x 7 = 84
1200 + 84 = 1284
But I'm going to assume that that 100 is supposed to be a 10 so that the calculation actually makes sense ;)
Either way, the calculation should be:
4000/10 = 400
400 * 7 = 2800
4000 - 2800 = 1200
He was right ;)
Edit: Actually, it depends on where you're starting before taking into account the 70%. If Pures do 70%
more
than Hybrids, then the first calculation applies. If Hybrids do 70%
less
than Pures, than my calculation applies. Point of reference is important ;)
Post by
142785
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Post by
Rubendesmet619
Ok, im gone say this only once.
The ONLY reason blizzard let pures do more DPS is because they can't change roles.
If theres only one spot left and they need a healer a rogue can go level alts, another DPS hybrid can respec.(I KNOW this ain't realistic and wil never happen for progresraids but hey, thats blizzard).
It has NOTHING to so with being ranged/melee, ammount of buffs etc.
Also, theres no difeerence in a 2 or 3 way hybrid, you either are a hybrid or you arent.
Atm warriors are low and DK's/ferals need a nerf. The nerf is comming, now im just waiting for that little buff warriors need.
I have np's getting beaten by good rogues, I'm glad they are there.
Getting beaten by a retridin, DK or feral DPS on the other hand is just rediculous(for another reason then skil/gear that is).
Post by
skumbananer
paladins are a special case, holy paladins can only heal, prot paladins can tank and heal (with healing gear, not an issue for dual specced raiders, but during levelling). And ret paladins can dps, heal and tank. All in one single specc. That is so op during the levelling phase, that their dps shouldnt rival 2 role hybrids (warrs, dks) but it does.
Post by
daboss40
paladins are a special case, holy paladins can only heal, prot paladins can tank and heal (with healing gear, not an issue for dual specced raiders, but during levelling). And ret paladins can dps, heal and tank. All in one single specc. That is so op during the levelling phase, that their dps shouldnt rival 2 role hybrids (warrs, dks) but it does.
LOL you really aren't joking huh... ret palas can tank and heal? Wow! I bet chuck norris plays a paladin becuase they seem so frikkin OP! Hell I'm not surprised that we don't see 25 man raids full of just ret paladins!
Ok, Aweful jokes aside, If you really believe that ret palas can heal and tank with any semblance of proficiency, you need to stop taking whatever it is that you take. The mere notion that you would even try to pass that trash as fact in this forum makes we want to punch a baby in the spleen. How can you even try to suggest that a ret paladin can survive against anything you need a group for that much longer than a mage/rogue. Sure we can heal, but we wont out heal 3k melee strikes.
So I'll say THIS again:
The ONLY reason blizzard says they let pures do more DPS is because they can't change roles. The real reason is that people, most of which have absolutely no idea how Hybrid DPS specs work, like to whine....
I'm tired of Blizzard justifying this, and people defending it. Granted, there's nothing I can do about it, but it doesn't make it any less of an awful decision.
Post by
skumbananer
A ret paladin can heal, tank and dps all the instances from wailing caverns to halls of stone. Just keep 3 sets of gear.
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