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Prot DPS/PVP - Protribution Guide - Updated 3.3!
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Post by
Squishalot
Yep, svirve's answered it all right. Avenging Wrath uptime wouldn't change it significantly though - an extra 20% of 20 secs over 2 mins instead of 3 mins is the equivalent of 30% of 20 secs over 2 minutes. 20secs/2mins = 1/6, meaning a total of 5%, vs 3.33%. An extra 1.67% scaling? On the figures above, it doesn't cut it. But thanks for plugging the hole.
Good point on the crit. Not 100% sure of that, I'll check my spreadsheet when I get back to work. I may have accidentally left it as 2/3 Sanctity of Battle on the Ret side.
Post 3.2, I think Theck proved that tankadins are better off getting 3/5 Conviction and 2/3 Crusade, rather than getting 5/5 SotP. I assume that it'll be weighted more towards Protribution anyway, since you'll have a higher proportion of your damage being non-seal/judgement related, so I believe the principle still stands. Opinion?
Post by
bahlak
I have a question for pvp.
I do arenas and currently my glyphs are Avenger's shield, and turn evil.
Which glyph is better for mana efficiency, seal of command, or shield of righteousness?
Post by
svirve
I thought SoR was the PvP seal of choice?
Otherwise SoComm will give you more mana for your buck than ShoR. (ShoR: 6% base mana per 8 sec vs SoComm: 8% per 8 sec)
Post by
Squishalot
I think SoC is better for PvP, because we haven't spec'd into Seals of the Pure. SoC + Glyph of SoC is more 'effective' than SoR + Glyph of SoR anyway. Especially seeing as the only difference in the builds is the extra 1% crit.
svirve, we've got a few more things to do on the spreadsheet:
1) Model the changes to ShoR (including the BV cap)
2) Model the changes to Crusader Strike
3) Change crit to 50% instead of 100%, unless SoV is in use
4) Make sure Seals of the Pure works
There was one more, but I can't remember it now... I lost a post last night ><
Post by
292580
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
I actually prefer
Sorthalis, Hammer of the Watchers
.
Aside from the fact that it's practically impossible to get, it has 10 higher base DPS, and is spec'ed for Strength, rather than Agi/AP. 1 Str, we worked out in 3.1, was 50% better than 2AP, due to the bonus you get to ShoR, and then some again due to Divine Strength. That's been slightly nerfed though. Weapon Speed only matters for HotR seal procs.
I just don't like the amount of agi on the items. But that's personal preference.
In terms of PvE vs PvP, you should get enough PvE block rating gear to be BV capped for the purposes of Shield of Righteousness. After that, there isn't any additional damage benefit of stacking BV, you only get the damage mitigation, which is still good in its own right though.
I personally prefer to use a pure PvE block set for Prot PvP, from the burst perspective and the mitigation perspective. The overall DPS/damage doesn't matter so much to me, I'm just an a$$hole on the battlefield :)
Post by
svirve
1) Model the changes to ShoR (including the BV cap)
2) Model the changes to Crusader Strike
3) Change crit to 50% instead of 100%, unless SoV is in use
4) Make sure Seals of the Pure works
There was one more, but I can't remember it now... I lost a post last night ><
1. I've been using the 100% BV instead of 130% for a while now just need to fix the cap and DR.
2. You mean change the formula right? So that it's 75% weapon damage instead of 110%? If so, done.
3. Wait what now?
4. Added it to SoV hits, ticks.
Post by
Squishalot
3. Crits do 50% extra damage, not double damage (yeah, big mistake on our parts =__= it's hard to tell the difference with mitigated damage!). The change to SoV means that if you have 5 stacks up, your crits now do double damage.
Post by
svirve
Spell crits do 50% extra damage yes, melee crits do 100% extra damage, or did i miss something?
But since we're assuming a full stack of SoV at all times there's not much to change. Unless you want to integrate SoR and SoC in the spreadsheet.
Post by
Squishalot
SoR and SoC would be nice, it'll be good to demonstrate which is better for PvP?
I'm not sure regarding crits. For one reason or another, my experiments in trying to work it out have given me highly conflicting results =\
Post by
svirve
What you might be thinking of is that blizz mentioned SoV critting for 100% at 5 stacks.
And anytime before 5 stacks it crits for 50%. Though this only affects the 33% extra weapon damage.
Otherwise it should be melee abilities - 100% crit, spells 50% crit.
Melee - HotR, ShoR, CS, White hits etc.
Spell - Exo, Judge, Seals etc.
I do agree we've been assuming everything to be 100% crit. Going to change this on alot of spells.
Post by
65116
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
Ah, it's only the SoV proc that crits for double?
And yep, Dobbel, I know the Judgement extra damage isn't related. But there is something in the patch notes that says that 5 stacks of SoV means that crits generally do double damage instead of 50% crit damage. So your 2k judgement does 3k because of 5 stack, and therefore 6k because it's a 100% crit instead. But svirve thinks it might apply only to the procs... have to check this one out sometime.
Post by
178943
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
svirve
Yea i noticed the Touched by the Light changes which is really really awesome for us.
Seal of Vengeance and Seal of Corruption: These seals have been redesigned to deal substantially more damage. Now, once a paladin has 5 copies of the debuff from these seals on his or her target, on each swing the paladin will deal 33% weapon damage as Holy,
with critical strikes dealing double damage.
In addition, the damage-over-time effect is now considered a melee attack instead of a spell attack.
Normally seals do 50% crit damage since they're spells. But SoV does 100% crit damage since blizz said so.
IIRC Dobbel is right with judgements critting for 50% extra and not 100%.
Post by
178943
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
Nice to see, and thanks for putting the numbers together.
Only thing I can criticise is that you may be getting 1200SP from the new Touched by the Light, but you'll be losing about 400-500 SP from the old Touched by the Light, with the 30% from Stam. So the benefit, and the 'extra damage' is limited to 700-800 SP.
Post by
178943
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Dagamed
I hate to be the dummy to ask this, but is protribution, as of 3.2, a viable dps raiding build?
I wanna try this out but i don't wanna waste 80 gold on respecs and glyphs.
I must say though, whoever came up with this had quite the imagination.
Post by
Squishalot
He did, didn't he? failblog had quite the time trying to convince us it was viable in 3.13...
It's viable in 3.2, as long as you don't mind being 'behind the pack' in terms of DPS and are willing to be carried a bit. Chances are, you'll output lower DPS than conventional classes/specs.
So strictly speaking, not really viable. It seems now to be more a PvP build, in much the same way that Prot-healers were relegated to PvP. (Now they're getting nerfed, so come 3.3, we'll probably lose our burst...)
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